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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 200 73.0%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 10 3.6%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 29 10.6%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 19 6.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 16 5.8%

  • Total voters
    274
because they need LRT funding to fix that part.
Not really since this area is funded by Waterfront Toronto in the first place.

On the other hand, Streets are part of the City Planning and moving Parliament east requires funding and that is part of the funding of QQE. Then you need the tracks in place first to do it right the first time and the catch 22 issue.

Since Waterfront Toronto wants to get going on the east development and that block, both the developer and WT can come with the funds to make the street change sooner than later without the tracks and doing things twice.
 
So I looked at it a bit more closely since these responses relating to the QQE streetcar line didn't make any sense to me (EDIT: didn't make sense in response to my question) as:
  1. Parliament has no streetcar tracks here
  2. The new section of Parliament is entirely north of the streetcar line and apart from providing platforms, the angle at which the street meets doesn't impact on that infrastructure
  3. The new Parliament street is not even just maintaining it's current path between Lakeshore and QQE, it's already being realigned
Anyway, I now suspect that the street is curving to meet the Parliament Slip Wavedeck and as such the two crosswalks put crossing pedestrians to either side of it. If that is indeed the reason, I don't really agree, but at least it's a reason. To me it seemed arbitrary to go with anything other than continuing the angle north of Lakeshore which is why I asked.
 
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So I looked at it a bit more closely since these responses relating to the QQE streetcar line didn't make any sense to me as:
  1. Parliament has no streetcar tracks here
  2. The new section of Parliament is entirely north of the streetcar line and apart from providing platforms, the angle at which the street meets doesn't impact on that infrastructure
  3. The new Parliament street is not even just maintaining it's current path between Lakeshore and QQE, it's already being realigned
Anyway, I now suspect that the street is curving to meet the Parliament Slip Wavedeck and as such the two crosswalks put crossing pedestrians to either side of it. If that is indeed the reason, I don't really agree, but at least it's a reason. To me it seemed arbitrary to go with anything other than continuing the angle north of Lakeshore which is why I asked.
QQE is going to be extended from where it ends now (@ Parliament) over to Cherry and the current eastern end will be 'straightened out'. The QQE LRT will, obviously, run on the new alignment/extension. Phase 1 of this is to fill in part of the Parliament Street Slip and extend QQE in that area and then adjust the junction of QQE and Parliament. There are no plans to add streetcar tracks on Parliament from King to QQE (though some think this would be useful).
 
QQE is going to be extended from where it ends now (@ Parliament) over to Cherry and the current eastern end will be 'straightened out'. The QQE LRT will, obviously, run on the new alignment/extension. Phase 1 of this is to fill in part of the Parliament Street Slip and extend QQE in that area and then adjust the junction of QQE and Parliament. There are no plans to add streetcar tracks on Parliament from King to QQE (though some think this would be useful).
Tracks on Parliament and service to Castle Frank has been raised numerous times since 2004 that keeps getting shot down as its outside the mandate area for the Waterfront in the first place. This not looking at a network in the big picture like it should to being only a small area being folks on only.

There has been call for the Parliament Line to be reinstated as well expanded under the OL plan. I have no issues seeing the Parliament Line reinstated, but sadly it will have to be in mixed traffic.
 
Tracks on Parliament and service to Castle Frank has been raised numerous times since 2004 that keeps getting shot down as its outside the mandate area for the Waterfront in the first place. This not looking at a network in the big picture like it should to being only a small area being folks on only.

There has been call for the Parliament Line to be reinstated as well expanded under the OL plan. I have no issues seeing the Parliament Line reinstated, but sadly it will have to be in mixed traffic.
Please, let's not start down the Parliament Street rabbit hole again! I agree it has merit but it is not happening at the moment or the mid-future. Let's concentrate here on the QQE line to Commissioners and the possible/probable link to Cherry Street below the rail berm.
 
Take this with a grain of salt, but was told over the weekend that the report is to go to the Executive Committee either in Oct or Nov with a public meeting beforehand.

Given the state of funding for the city, best to close Union Station and get the east-west line in service ASP, not the 2030/35 timeframe. Leave Union until there is funds to do it since its the lion share of the total cost.

Transit was to be first since 2003, yet its the last thing to happen that allows cars still to control the new developments.

TTC stills seems to wants to run buses in place of streetcars over the LRT bridge until there is the need for streetcars which is a huge mistake. Then you have an CEO who loves buses in the first place and thinks they will do the job in the first place..

If the city is to deferred capital projects or scaping them, they should start with the Gardiner by removing it 100% east of Yonge.
 
Take this with a grain of salt, but was told over the weekend that the report is to go to the Executive Committee either in Oct or Nov with a public meeting beforehand.

Given the state of funding for the city, best to close Union Station and get the east-west line in service ASP, not the 2030/35 timeframe. Leave Union until there is funds to do it since its the lion share of the total cost.

Transit was to be first since 2003, yet its the last thing to happen that allows cars still to control the new developments.

TTC stills seems to wants to run buses in place of streetcars over the LRT bridge until there is the need for streetcars which is a huge mistake. Then you have an CEO who loves buses in the first place and thinks they will do the job in the first place..

If the city is to deferred capital projects or scaping them, they should start with the Gardiner by removing it 100% east of Yonge.
This is from WT, 3 weeks ago.

The Waterfront East LRT (WELRT) project team last provided an update to stakeholders and the general public in conjunction with consultations at the end of March and the beginning of April 2023. At that time, the team was targeting a report to the June 2023 City Council meeting.

The report timing has now been updated to target the end of October 2023, and there are a few reasons for the change. The new timing will allow us to better align with the 2024 City Budget process, and with the Waterfront Revitalization Next Phase report, which is a direction previously approved by City Council.

In the meantime, the team will take advantage of the additional time before reporting to keep momentum going on the project. Work will continue on finalizing all the background documentation and preparing for the release of the draft Environmental Project Report in conjunction with the Transit Project Assessment Process, which will follow Council approval in the Fall.

The WELRT remains one of the City’s top transit priorities and this has not altered with the revised report timing.
 
The WELRT remains one of the City’s top transit priorities and this has not altered with the revised report timing.
At the same time, the new mayor is pivoting back to the Laytonesque position of Toronto can't afford transit expansion while operations need improvement ... that results in never having transit expansion. I'd think that this project, and Eglinton East LRT, are dead in the water for the next few years, unless the province and/or feds pick up 100% of the cost.

Perhaps a more scaled back version might appear, that wouldn't require the new loop at Union.
 
Given the state of funding for the city, best to close Union Station and get the east-west line in service ASP, not the 2030/35 timeframe. Leave Union until there is funds to do it since its the lion share of the total cost.

I was momentarily scared when I read "close Union Station". Then realized that's about the streetcar loop, not the subway or GO trains.

In the interim, when the east-west Queens Quay route is available but the new Union Stn streetcar loop is under construction, how will the riders get from the Waterfront to downtown? A clockwise loop service via Queens Quay, Spadina, King, Cherry, plus a matching counterclockwise service?
 
At the same time, the new mayor is pivoting back to the Laytonesque position of Toronto can't afford transit expansion while operations need improvement ... that results in never having transit expansion. I'd think that this project, and Eglinton East LRT, are dead in the water for the next few years, unless the province and/or feds pick up 100% of the cost.

Perhaps a more scaled back version might appear, that wouldn't require the new loop at Union.
Perhaps Olivia realizes that Doug is so bent on delivering ‘value’ to his constituents, and a balanced budget, that no $ are forthcoming, and any improvements or maintenance of the status quo will have to be generated internally. The political position seems to be auditing financial performance to help certain municipalities spend there $ more wisely, which will become a blame game very quickly. So as you have pointed out, no $ for expansion unless the province or the feds pony up.
 
Perhaps Olivia realizes that Doug is so bent on delivering ‘value’ to his constituents, and a balanced budget, that no $ are forthcoming, and any improvements or maintenance of the status quo will have to be generated internally. The political position seems to be auditing financial performance to help certain municipalities spend there $ more wisely, which will become a blame game very quickly. So as you have pointed out, no $ for expansion unless the province or the feds pony up.
But with that wing of the NDP, there is never any funds available for expansion - it's the 1990s all over again. At least this time the province is in a different place these days.
 
Following our June 2023 update email, the Waterfront East LRT (WELRT) project team will be reporting to the October 2023 Executive Committee meeting and November 2023 City Council meeting.

As such, materials have been posted today, October 24, on the City of Toronto’s website. We encourage you to review the materials now that they are available.

The report provides City Council with an update on the preliminary design and engineering work completed to date, including the 30% design of all project components, a preliminary design business case, constructability assessment, and pre-planning work for the Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP).

The report also seeks to advance additional work on the WELRT moving forward. We have worked to better align with the 2024 City Budget process, which was a direction by City Council.

We will continue preparing to distribute the project Notice of Commencement to initiate the Transit Project Assessment Process, which is anticipated to follow Council approval in November.

The WELRT remains one of the City’s top transit priorities and this has not changed with the revised report timing. The team will continue to keep you informed as the project advances and we look forward to continued engagement.
Regards,
The Waterfront Transit Team
The City of Toronto, TTC, and Waterfront Toronto
 
Report on advancing this project (but not yet building it) headed to the next meeting of Executive Ctte:

https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2023.EX9.14

LOL, as I wanted the posts above pour in while I'm typing....but you still get some added detail here:

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1698155190692.png

Say What:

1698155229279.png


2.57 Billion? To hell with it, lets just build a subway.

***

Interesting Assumption:

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Assumptions are from the Preliminary Business Case, which can be found here:

 

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