Waterfront: Portlands Sports Complex (8s?, RDH Architects) DEAD

[MetroMan]

Why is it an "idiotic place to put one"? I think it's a brilliant idea to locate it here. The Toronto waterfront revitalization has been putting its recreational focus exclusively on the warm months. This will result in having a windswept and empty waterfront during the winter. The rink will bring activity this city district year round.

I support it, and I recognize that it has to be beautiful if we're going to continue setting the standard for a welcoming waterfront. It's unfortunate that this had to become the poster child for excessive city spending. It will no doubt be killed off when the new council sits.

 

[Tulse]

Why is it an "idiotic place to put one"?

Because it is extremely poorly serviced by mass transit, and would not serve to build and promote the neighbourhood, but instead just draw those from long distances to drive. It's like building a Big Box warehouse retailer.

 

[MetroMan]

You have a point until you realize that plans are in place for it to be served by transit in the near future. Also, this part of the city needs an ice rink so it would serve those in the area. Of course, given the "iconic" nature of the venue, it would likely attract people from all over the city and suburbs but you can say that about the Harbourhfront ice rink or the waterfront in general.

 

[Tulse]

You have a point until you realize that plans are in place for it to be served by transit in the near future.

One tentatively proposed streetcar route is hardly well-serviced for a venue that will dump large numbers of people at the same time onto transit.

Also, this part of the city needs an ice rink so it would serve those in the area.

But not really the immediate area -- this complex is definitely intended to increase overall city capacity, and not just service the neighbourhood.

Of course, given the "iconic" nature of the venue, it would likely attract people from all over the city

It will only be "iconic" if the stacked version is built, and given everything, I think the benefits of that approach probably outweigh the drawbacks. But the original sprawled version is a nightmare, not at all appropriate for the waterfront.

 

[spider]

Also, this part of the city needs an ice rink so it would serve those in the area.

There are no THOSE in the area or anywhere near it nor will there be for decades. By the time the local population is sufficient to require this rink it will be derelict and judged not up to local standards.

 

[Red October]

Because it is extremely poorly serviced by mass transit.

Yea, cause everybody uses mass transit to go to a game with their bag of hockey equipment and sticks on them right?

 

[MetroMan]

So.... dead on the first council meeting December 7? Later? Anybody taking bets?

I was happy to see it being proposed, but it wasn't around long enough to be too sad to see it go. As long as they don't build some industrial complex, it can wait for the next political swing to the left.

 

[toto]

I am guessing that city funded rinks will not be a priority of this council. Though, I do see them giving corporations interested in building rinks the go ahead. Let us hope that they're tendered bids.

 

[Northern Magus]

Sigh. Chalk this one up to a missed opportunity. It's become a symbol of precisely the kind of thing that Ford promises to treat like a pinata.

Look for the Ford Brothers Circus to revert back to the design that had the Design Review Panel about to resign en masse..... And then look for the Design Review Panel to resign en masse.

 

[CML]

I agree - this one's not going anywhere now. At least not the vertically stacked building that's currently on the table.

 

[Silence&Motion]

This will definitely get scrapped. I'm not too worried about it though. It always seemed like the "big box store" of hockey rinks to me. People got so upset about how suburban the design was without realizing that the original concept was completely suburban. It was essentially a mega sports complex built in isolation to serve a vast geographical area. Cars were the most reasonable way of getting there, so large parking lots were essential whether or not they decided to stack the rinks.

I'd much rather have a few smaller rinks scattered across different communities, perhaps incorporated into public-private partnerships with real estate developers if affordability is an issue.

 

[Tulse]

It was essentially a mega sports complex built in isolation to serve a vast geographical area. Cars were the most reasonable way of getting there, so large parking lots were essential whether or not they decided to stack the rinks.

I'd much rather have a few smaller rinks scattered across different communities, perhaps incorporated into public-private partnerships with real estate developers if affordability is an issue.

But the original proposal was for a flat mega sports complex, with exactly the same number of pads, just sprawled out all over prime waterfront land. The choice (as it was presented) wasn't between the stacked rinks in one location and a bunch of smaller, scattered rinks -- it was between a lovely 8 storey edifice with a relatively small footprint or a vast lowrise building that was completely ill-suited to the location.

My preference would be not to have any large rink complex at this spot. But if one has to go there, let's put something in that fits with the rest of the waterfront.

 

[Silence&Motion]

My preference would be not to have any large rink complex at this spot. But if one has to go there, let's put something in that fits with the rest of the waterfront.

I agree with you on that point. I just think that the whole project was misconceived from the beginning.

 

[Northern Magus]

I just think that the whole project was misconceived from the beginning.

Not really. It's a catalyst project: a community asset that will draw people in to the area, and it sets the bar for design quality. On top of that, it promotes sport, health and exercise. So anyway you cut it, it's a landmark that exemplifies precisely the kind of building we want in the port lands.

It's a similar concept to Sherbourne Common: build the landmark public asset first, and watch it draw private sector revitalization all around it.

 

[Tulse]

But the impetus for the stacked design was not to be a catalyst, but to put some lipstick on the pig of the sprawling single-level design originally proposed. And I would argue that the particular location is not planned to have the kind of road and transit support that one would want for something that will draw large boluses of people at particular times.