syn
Senior Member
While these designs are important, I hope the buildings that help frame them are well done too.
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Waterfront: Jarvis Slip Public Space Design Competition
- Thread starter smuncky
- Start date
JasonParis
Moderator
West 8 have similar arms in a square in Rotterdam...
In Rotterdam, people could control them from a console, but the console was broke when we were there.
Still an interesting idea for Toronto, if not totally original.
Jdot
Active Member
Yes, West 8 has a unique idea for the Jarvis Slip, but I cant see this coming to fruition. Take those hydraulic arms out of the design, and their proposal falls flat. What is the liklihood that those arms get built, and look like the design? If they actually are built, I have the feeling that they will be quite ugly, and will break soon after being installed (or at least not get used until special events).
JR is boring.
A lot of people seem to think that the Cormier design is also boring, and just a rip off of HtO, but I like that idea. I like the though of having another sand beach on the east side of the central waterfront. It is the design that makes the most sense I think. Sure, the bedrock outcrops are Yorkville rip-offs and the sand is an HtO rip-off, but they are GOOD rip-offs.
Cormier is the best in my view.
JR is boring.
A lot of people seem to think that the Cormier design is also boring, and just a rip off of HtO, but I like that idea. I like the though of having another sand beach on the east side of the central waterfront. It is the design that makes the most sense I think. Sure, the bedrock outcrops are Yorkville rip-offs and the sand is an HtO rip-off, but they are GOOD rip-offs.
Cormier is the best in my view.
Tewder
Senior Member
I agree with JDot regarding West 8's proposal. It's a little gimicky, and beyond the arm-things the rest of the square seems like a cluttered afterthought.
I like Rosenberg's. The art installation has the potential to be beautiful and relevent, a true icon for the waterfront. Also, hers is the only design that seems to take into consideration the fact that Toronto's waterfront is pretty much inhospitable for at least 3 or 4 months of the year. I certainly wouldn't want to be laying in the sand, or playing with those arm things in the middle of January! Rosenberg's design can be enjoyed in the summer and appreciated from afar in the winter, with the added potential of winter skating for the reflecting pool.
I like Rosenberg's. The art installation has the potential to be beautiful and relevent, a true icon for the waterfront. Also, hers is the only design that seems to take into consideration the fact that Toronto's waterfront is pretty much inhospitable for at least 3 or 4 months of the year. I certainly wouldn't want to be laying in the sand, or playing with those arm things in the middle of January! Rosenberg's design can be enjoyed in the summer and appreciated from afar in the winter, with the added potential of winter skating for the reflecting pool.
syn
Senior Member
Good point. It's definitely the most versatile proposal.
MetroMan
Senior Member
I too am beginning to like JR's the best. I like how the square is built on an incline so during events, more people get a better view.
The art piece reminds me of Crown Fountain in Millennium Park, Chicago. The shallow water allows you to walk on it and cool off your feet. kids will definitely be playing in the mist.
The hydraulic arms from West8 sounds very cool but I also think that they won't be working most of the time. Likely they'll end up looking like the ones in Rotterdam which are quite ugly and industrial in my opinion.
Regardless of who wins, the West8 curved boardwalk at the end of the slip should be adopted to fit in with the rest of the central waterfront.
The art piece reminds me of Crown Fountain in Millennium Park, Chicago. The shallow water allows you to walk on it and cool off your feet. kids will definitely be playing in the mist.
The hydraulic arms from West8 sounds very cool but I also think that they won't be working most of the time. Likely they'll end up looking like the ones in Rotterdam which are quite ugly and industrial in my opinion.
Regardless of who wins, the West8 curved boardwalk at the end of the slip should be adopted to fit in with the rest of the central waterfront.
smuncky
Senior Member
i went to the design presentations today at metro hall. i still don't like janet rosenbergs design. her idea is well thoughout and interesting but without that center feature, the whole square loses it's appeal. that's whats great about west 8's design, is that even without the robotic arms, the space is very interesting and has a lot to offer to the engaging pedestrians.
here are some pics i took of the models.
JRA
CC
West 8
here are some pics i took of the models.
JRA
CC
West 8
junctionist
Senior Member
That West8 model at Metro Hall has noticeably less effort put into it.
Rotterdam's arms are not that exciting, finished in that shade of red they do look industrial as mentioned. Our proposed arms appear better positioned and of a richer material, but you never know what corners they'll cut in construction.
JRA's proposal has that larger, open public space with the chairs that will create maintenance issues. It is featureless by the water, and may provide more space than is necessary.
Rotterdam's arms are not that exciting, finished in that shade of red they do look industrial as mentioned. Our proposed arms appear better positioned and of a richer material, but you never know what corners they'll cut in construction.
JRA's proposal has that larger, open public space with the chairs that will create maintenance issues. It is featureless by the water, and may provide more space than is necessary.
smuncky
Senior Member
claude cormier's model was really well done. lots of detail even in places where it didn't have to be like redpath and the ship. you could even see the ships propeller underneath the water.
Tewder
Senior Member
Aside from the art installation, the beauty of JR's design is in the details: the mists, the light patterns at night, the paving surfaces etc. When you add people to the mix the place will feel very lively in warm months, and very open to the sky and water. In the winter, the art installation, mists and lights etc will continue to make this site very attractive.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
JRA's proposal IMO is rather gimmicky - take away the art piece and the space is basically a flat, bland surface. It also seem to lack a sense of enclosure - which makes for a really harsh space in winter. I feel like they are taking too much of the shock and awe from Chicago's Millenium Park without thinking about the context.
The thing that draws me to West 8 is the fact that you can remove the arms and still get a well defined, intimate public space that can imaginably be used all year.
AoD
The thing that draws me to West 8 is the fact that you can remove the arms and still get a well defined, intimate public space that can imaginably be used all year.
AoD
Jayomatic
Active Member
I think the West 8 proposal is probably the best year round design. The JRA proposal doesn't provide any barriers to wind and weather and I could see this place being dead in the winter due to nasty winds blowing off the lake. At least West 8 put some trees to act as a buffer. I also like how West 8 uses some Pine trees to give a year round tree layer instead of this area becoming a dreadfull grey area like the rest of the city. I was also hoping for some sort of steps down to the water to give this site a better connection to the lake.
Edward
Senior Member
They can make it as funky as they want but I still doubt you'll get many people down there in the winter.
lokyin
New Member
Cormier's juxtaposition of that 'beach' to the industrial redpath/ship thing doesn't work at all for me. when ppl go, they're gonna think why the heck would they be on that beach to look at a ship's bottom... and not facing the open sky and lake to the south.
JR's is just... too bland. the so called details are useless when, if one doesn't read these threads and just goes to the square when it finishes, only sees a really really open square with a billboard blocking the view of the lake sitting in the middle. agree with the above post that it is too barren to wind and weather. this just can't turn out well in my imagination.
west8's proposal, agree that the robotic arms may not work out well, but i'm sure they'll do better than the rotterdam ones in terms of looks. with this proposal tho, i particularly like the trees and the details... now that i've had time to absorb, the triangular elevated sitting-rock things really can slow down the square visitor and becomes a great gathering place for lunches or general stroll. while, the tree lined to the south before the boardwalk on the lake is great... the trees lining the south makes it actually more attractive to a visitor than a barren water-edge. this proposal invites visitors to move south along the square.
if i visualise walking into the square from the northwest, i'd be a bit too afraid to move through the big space in JR's plan and be quite turned off (am i supposed to stand in the middle of the square or go around the billboard that is blocking my view of the lake?). With cormier, there seems to be a clear path to move through but it seems a little bit like "ok so beach in front of an ugly ship... or... nothing".
i still REALLY prefer west8...
JR's is just... too bland. the so called details are useless when, if one doesn't read these threads and just goes to the square when it finishes, only sees a really really open square with a billboard blocking the view of the lake sitting in the middle. agree with the above post that it is too barren to wind and weather. this just can't turn out well in my imagination.
west8's proposal, agree that the robotic arms may not work out well, but i'm sure they'll do better than the rotterdam ones in terms of looks. with this proposal tho, i particularly like the trees and the details... now that i've had time to absorb, the triangular elevated sitting-rock things really can slow down the square visitor and becomes a great gathering place for lunches or general stroll. while, the tree lined to the south before the boardwalk on the lake is great... the trees lining the south makes it actually more attractive to a visitor than a barren water-edge. this proposal invites visitors to move south along the square.
if i visualise walking into the square from the northwest, i'd be a bit too afraid to move through the big space in JR's plan and be quite turned off (am i supposed to stand in the middle of the square or go around the billboard that is blocking my view of the lake?). With cormier, there seems to be a clear path to move through but it seems a little bit like "ok so beach in front of an ugly ship... or... nothing".
i still REALLY prefer west8...
Fad225
Active Member
JR's was the best by far... so was her presentation last night..
its really exciting to see Toronto trying to go for the best!
its really exciting to see Toronto trying to go for the best!