VIVA + York Region Transit

[Chuck100]

I would love to know what the daily ridership on each route is now that viva has matured somewhat. Last time I rode Yonge, it was packed almost like a TTC bus. Given that it uses articulated buses running every 5-10 minutes for much of that day, that could translate into a lot of people served.

 

[drum118]

VIVA got a Cash Cow when they took over GO Yonge line.

VIVA got 5 more Artic's coming as well some more 40' this year.

VIVA is paying 4.72% more over last year price for this batch of buses.

I love to see TTC order a 150 VanHool Artic's over the NFI or Nova or Orion or 250 40's buses that are to be tender this year with delivery for 2008. VanHool buses are the best buse out there now.

 

[jeicow]

I won't be impressed until some transit system starts running the AGG 300. Now THERE'S a bus/

Btw, what does is the seating capacity of a standard articulated bus (New Flyer/Orion)? I was looking at the Viva website and it shows the seating capacity of one of their articulated as being 50, which to me is a lot less than other articulated buses, which makes sense as to why whenever I'm on it Viva, it alway seems so crowded, especially when you consider that the larger seats seem to take up more space.

 

[astObs]

I saw these buses for the first time yesterday. SEXY!

 

[wyliepoon]

I won't be impressed until some transit system starts running the AGG 300. Now THERE'S a bus

That's not a bus! Looks more like a Road Train to me!

 

[drum118]

Both MT's and OC's artic's seat either 56 or 58 depending what year they were bought.

Having ridden VanHool, NFI and NABI artic's I can say VanHool is the winner.

NFI and NABI buses give you a rollercoaster rider compare to VanHool bus. I use MT's artic's almost on a daily base and the VanHool couple times a month and this allows me to do a real comparsion between both buses.

Cannot find the numbers for VIVA Blue line, but it around 15,000 and that was before the final extension was open for it.

MT route 19 which is like the Blue line is suppose to support 23,000 riders, but based on my data numbers, it is around 30,000.

MT ridership numbers jump 2.5 million within 3 months in November as the new numbers were based on current date numbers. One reason for 19 to operate with close door 7 day a week now.

 

[Chuck100]

YRT Service Changes, scaling back of viva

Spring service changes have been added to the YRT webpage. There are three notable changes:

1) Presumably due to low ridership, service is being reduced through western Vaughan. Hopefully they aren't over estimating future subway ridership too :b . Minor routing adjustments on Unionville-Don Mills route.

2) Normal YRT on Highway 7 east: buses will stop heading southbound on Yonge, thereby disconnecting regular YRT service on Highway 7 form the subway. Remember that viva pink will still provide a connection from Hihgway 7 to Finch, however midday you'll have to transfer to viva on Yonge.

3) Late night service being expanded on Yonge. Last northbound trip will now leave Finch at 2:25.

 

[spmarshall]

The Highway 7 West Viva Route ("Orange") is pretty quiet at all times of the day and night - it is hard to find a bus on that route with more than a handful of passengers. "Blue" (Yonge) and "Purple" (Highway 7 East) seem to do much better.

 

[adma]

Hate to racial-profile, but an Asian vs Italian thing?

 

[spmarshall]

More that Vaughan is hopeless. The Markham side has some condos, a real shopping mall, a civic centre and two small historical centres with surrounding residential. The Vaughan side west of York U (where the empty "orange" route is) has a big box monstrocity and little else. Promenade and the denser part of Vaughan - Thornhill - are on the purple route, the same one as Markham.

 

[disparishun]

I agree though, at the very least, this will -- or should -- bring public pressure to bear on the weakest link, which is certainly Vaughan. Not to keep on yammering at the same point but, well, the Vaughan city council is said to operate with very little transparency. If this motivates the media to cast a critical eye on all the bizarre goings-on there, then something good will come of it. Vaughan certainly has a way, so if there could be a will, too, then it isn't nutty to hope that it could do a 180.

On the Thornhill part of Vaughan, though: yes, it's far denser than a lot of other parts of Vaughan, but it's still highly car oriented. The transit planners still don't entirely get it in that part of the system. Take the "transit terminals" hubbing approach:
www.yorkregiontransit.com/terminals.asp

Great, but they don't bother connecting many buses -- like the #5, which I grew up taking -- to more than one terminal. The #5 Clark bus trundles right past the Promenade terminal, but doesn't bother skirting in, in order to allow interchange with two VIVA routes and a whack of city buses. Aargh!

 

[spmarshall]

Of course the 5 Clark route doesn't enter the terminal. It was planned when the only reason anyone would take Vaughan Transit would be to get to Finch Station or the Islington/Steeles loop to connect to TTC. I'm sure most people taking the 5 would still prefer the route the way it is.

 

[drum118]

Orange Line is the weakest of all VIVA. Been on it with no more than 8 riders on it.

Green is the next one. I have been the only rider on when it left Don Mills.

Blue is top dog and a money maker with Purple being the 2nd and always will be.

It going to take 10 years at the earlest before you see real growth on the Orange line.

 

[Chuck100]

The performance of viva suggests the real reason why there is such a difference between the Yonge and Spadina lines. Spadina isn't empty because people in its catchment area are using Yonge instead. Spadina is empty because people in its catchment area aren't using transit at all. On the other hand, Finch is not overcrowded because it's drawing people from too large an area. It's crowded because the people in its catchment area - Markham, Richmond Hill, Thornhill - are all receptive to transit.

You just can't justify the extension of the subway to Highway 7 by saying it will remove riders from Yonge. It won't, because the peope who use Yonge all live close enough to it that they should be using Yonge. You want to boost ridership on Spadina? Get people in Woodbridge and Maple out of their cars!

 

[disparishun]

"Of course the 5 Clark route doesn't enter the terminal. It was planned when the only reason anyone would take Vaughan Transit would be to get to Finch Station or the Islington/Steeles loop to connect to TTC. I'm sure most people taking the 5 would still prefer the route the way it is."

That's a bit circular, don't you think? Of course the route was planned before there was a terminal -- but by that logic no buses should ever connect to terminals.

Terminals are switching stations; they're what make hub-and-spoke systems work. Right now the 5 Clark route trundles past the Promenade terminal, yet not close enough to allow connections with all the other routes that switch there. If what are you saying is that most people taking the 5 would not ever want access to those other routes -- then it's hard for me to follow you. Yes, I know a bunch of people who'd like that access (example: me).

And, yes, having access to more routes will make it easier to go more places and provide an opportunity for new shopping and transport patterns. Isn't that the point -- to move away from needing to drive everywhere?