Visited Montreal for the first time. Some questions about their Metro system

[nephersir7]

The federal govt has jusidiction over the bridge so they had approved and budgeted a solution that required toll and no LRT tracks under the Harper govt. The province and city wanted no tolls and an LRT. Trudeau campaigned on this promise to not toll the bridge and the allow the LRT.

That's inaccurate.

The Harper govt. had the bridge built so that the province of QC could put whatever technology they wanted in the dedicated transit corridor (bus or LRT) and gave a deadline to the QC government to make up its mind on what transit technology the bridge should be built for.

Initially (Fall 2013) the PQ government had chosen to put an LRT, but then in spring 2014 the Quebec Liberals got re-elected (just before the federal deadline) and quickly shelved the LRT plan, telling the feds to build a busway that can later be converted to LRT.

In early 2015, they changed their minds, and decided to resume the LRT project by outsourcing the project to the Caisse, who took over the studies and came up with the REM project in spring 2016.

 

[Burnt creek]

That's inaccurate.

The Harper govt. had the bridge built so that the province of QC could put whatever technology they wanted in the dedicated transit corridor (bus or LRT) and gave a deadline to the QC government to make up its mind on what transit technology the bridge should be built for.

Initially (Fall 2013) the PQ government had chosen to put an LRT, but then in spring 2014 the Quebec Liberals got re-elected (just before the federal deadline) and quickly shelved the LRT plan, telling the feds to build a busway that can later be converted to LRT.

In early 2015, they changed their minds, and decided to resume the LRT project by outsourcing the project to the Caisse, who took over the studies and came up with the REM project in spring 2016.

Thanks for the clarification. I certainly wasnt 100% sure about the exact details surounding the lrt plans. The tolls part i was.

 

[Bogtrotter]

While Montreal doesn't have as much high-rise condos than Toronto, it has a lot more multi-family and low-rise apartments than Toronto. So areas are residential but not necessarily low density.

Yes, particularly in it's older inner city residential areas:

Vancayzeele Olivier, on Flickr

http://urbankchoze.blogspot.ca

Vancayzeele Olivier, on Flickr

 

[narduch]

In Toronto you are only allowed to demolish an old home if you are building a McMansion on the same site.

 

[mdrejhon]

Those neighborhoods are very similar to Paris in population density per square kilometer.

 

[BMO]

While Montreal doesn't have as much high-rise condos than Toronto, it has a lot more multi-family and low-rise apartments than Toronto. So areas are residential but not necessarily low density.

Yes, particularly in it's older inner city residential areas...

Those neighborhoods are very similar to Paris in population density per square kilometer.

I wonder if these areas would pass Toronto's Litmus test for where is appropriate to build a subway?

 

[pman]

I wonder if these areas would pass Toronto's Litmus test for where is appropriate to build a subway?

No, because they’re far too densely populated. Toronto only builds subways to sprawled 1950’s-vintage subdivisions, suburban shopping malls, highway interchanges, and vacant fields.

 

[wopchop]

No, because they’re far too densely populated. Toronto only builds subways to sprawled 1950’s-vintage subdivisions, suburban shopping malls, highway interchanges, and vacant fields.

Indeed! These areas have no potential to generate ridership because there is already ridership! The percentage increases on our annual CEO reports would be abysmal!

 

[Steve X]

One would wonder why Montreal's metro system have a higher ridership despite being roughly equivalent in network length and number of stations. I smell density...

 

[Hopkins123]

One would wonder why Montreal's metro system have a higher ridership despite being roughly equivalent in network length and number of stations. I smell density...

Indeed. Valerie Plante's Pink Metro proposal would have high ridership from Day One of operations due to the high population density in Montreal Nord and the Plateau.

 

[junctionist]

One would wonder why Montreal's metro system have a higher ridership despite being roughly equivalent in network length and number of stations. I smell density...

One factor is that there is no streetcar network to take some of the pressure off the Metro system.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

In Toronto you are only allowed to demolish an old home if you are building a McMansion on the same site.

Actually that's only in certain parts of Toronto others insist you have to keep one wall so that it's a renovation rather than a new build.

 

[W. K. Lis]

One factor is that there is no streetcar network to take some of the pressure off the Metro system.

With just a daily ridership for 504/514 King/Cherry at 65,000, which is much more than the Line 4 ridership of 47,680.

 

[mrgrieves]

It goes without saying but Toronto also has many areas of high-density, probably comparable to Montreal. Except many are not served by the subway. We talk about "relief lines" but really that line would actually serve areas that are already high density and would see high ridership from day 1 without the relief component in it.

Overall IMO its a different view of the subway whereas Toronto sees it as a way to get people in/out of the city for work or entertainment, whereas Montreal and most cities see it as a way to move people within the city. I suppose the streetcars and buses are meant to move people within the city here.

 

[Bogtrotter]

It goes without saying but Toronto also has many areas of high-density, probably comparable to Montreal. Except many are not served by the subway. We talk about "relief lines" but really that line would actually serve areas that are already high density and would see high ridership from day 1 without the relief component in it.

Overall IMO its a different view of the subway whereas Toronto sees it as a way to get people in/out of the city for work or entertainment, whereas Montreal and most cities see it as a way to move people within the city. I suppose the streetcars and buses are meant to move people within the city here.

I think both cities have comparable densities overall, Montreal slightly higher per sq km. But what is different and interesting is how different the built form is in the inner city residential areas. Montreal is more uniformly built-up with 2-5 story multiple family dwellings, whereas here in Toronto neighbourhoods are predominently smaller lowrise dwellings (many detached) yet interspersed with clusters of highrises.