Visited Montreal for the first time. Some questions about their Metro system

[Burnt creek]

I live in Montreal but I'm from Toronto and I have a few observations:

Why Montreal is better:

1. The stations are much larger and more impressive (and so pretty!).

2. Crew changeovers don't seem as noticeable as in Toronto (the train doesn't seem to stop for 3 minutes until a driver strolls in with a coffee).

3. Lionel-Groux has a really convenient transfer. I can just walk across the platform to change lines.

4. I almost always get a seat, even at rush hour.

5. Contactless Opus card.

Why Toronto is better:
1. Montreal doesn't so much have a metro system as it has a series of failed attempts to dig to the centre of the earth (of varying degrees of success) that they decided to link together by tunnel and run a few trains in. If you don't believe me try getting off at Place St. Henri or Du College. My legs have gotten stronger from walking up all the escalators.

2. The off-peak service is not as frequent in Montreal, trains come about every 8-9 minutes instead of every 5-6.

3. The Opus cards are quite convenient, but since every station seems to only have a single recharge machine there is always a lineup, especially at the beginning of the month or when someone elderly uses them.

4. The montreal trains are loud, don't have AC, and blast air at your eyes if you're standing.

5. Drivers/staff can be rude if you speak english.

6. The automated announcements really help on the TTC, with the display and the audio (both buses and metro). I've missed my bus stop a couple times in Montreal (and it's difficult to know where to get off if you haven't been there before). This is one area where the TTC is far ahead. In fact, frequently I find the announcements aren't even working on the metro cars.

7. This is a silly thing, but the doors on the metro are unpredictable (sometimes they chime, but more often than not they don't so you have no idea when they're closing.) I think drivers have received specific training to slam the doors in front of people rather than let them enter, from what I see on a daily basis. One time during my commute I entered a train that had been stopped, and without chiming the doors slammed on me mid-entry. My newspaper made it into the train but not me. It was quite painful.

I think you hit it on the nose on all counts. I agree with everything. I have seen the metro doors close on someone with bag. He made it inside and had his hand on the bag but the rest of the bag was outide the door. The whole car burst into laughter. Poor guy.

Another thing is the width of the platforms. I was shocked when i first saw the width of the Union station platform. I was thinking that alot of people must get killed. Thats changed now. Another important difference, in montreal, all the major attractions (including the universities, malls..etc) are coverred or very close to a metro station. In TO, there are massive areas of non coverage and that includes places like the Zoo, woodbine race track, the CNE and York U (of course that is changing), canada's wonderland. That was another thing that bugged me when first moved here and didnt have a car.

On the flip side. I was surprised to read earlier in this thread that someone thought the subway in montreal was cleaner. WOW, that must be recent.. I know that they made a massive effort recently to remove the graffitee in the montreal subway. There was time not long ago where you would see spray paint on the window. Its not uncommon in montreal to see the floors on the cars on the metro littered with tons of newspaper. I dont know how many times you would hear empty cans or bottles rolling on the floor as the metro was moving. We dont see that here.

Another big difference. On transit, in toronto, people are courteous. People give up their seats to pregnant women, the elderly and disabled. We also hold doors for people. We leave the left side of the escalator steps free for people to climb. You dont see this in montreal.

 

[44 North]

Should be very interesting when (if?) Mtl's REM plan comes to fruition. Even if its ambitious timeline is delayed by ~5yrs, it'd still give Montreal more subway/metro coverage than TO for many, many years. The plan isn't LRT, or RER. It's the real deal in terms of subway/metro (i.e fully grade-separated from road and rail). One could split hairs and call it a light metro, which is apt. But at the end of the day it's subway (like Vancouver's Skytrain or London's DLR, but unlike Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Finch West LRT, Sheppard East LRT).

If anyone wants more info on Mtl's proposal, CPDQ have released some video simulations at the bottom of this page, and a new report. Pretty cool stuff IMO.

 

[robmausser]

Should be very interesting when (if?) Mtl's REM plan comes to fruition. Even if its ambitious timeline is delayed by ~5yrs, it'd still give Montreal more subway/metro coverage than TO for many, many years. The plan isn't LRT, or RER. It's the real deal in terms of subway/metro (i.e fully grade-separated from road and rail). One could split hairs and call it a light metro, which is apt. But at the end of the day it's subway (like Vancouver's Skytrain or London's DLR, but unlike Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Finch West LRT, Sheppard East LRT).

If anyone wants more info on Mtl's proposal, CPDQ have released some video simulations at the bottom of this page, and a new report. Pretty cool stuff IMO.

The thing is too that Quebecors are much more progressive in being OK with things like this.

In Toronto if you even mention elevated rail people lose their minds.

 

[nfitz]

The thing is too that Quebecors are much more progressive in being OK with things like this.

In Toronto if you even mention elevated rail people lose their minds.

Almost all of that plan is along existing grade-separated heavy-rail corridors. Try suggesting they put an elevated LRT down Pie-IX and see what happens.

 

[aquateam]

The thing is too that Quebecors are much more progressive in being OK with things like this.

In Toronto if you even mention elevated rail people lose their minds.

Not sure where you're getting this from, Toronto has many examples of elevated rail (sections of B-D line, SRT, UPX spur, Davenport diamond bridge) but Montreal has none, except maybe the approach to Gare Centrale along the Bonaventure expressway.

 

[Burnt creek]

The thing is too that Quebecors are much more progressive in being OK with things like this.

In Toronto if you even mention elevated rail people lose their minds.

But we need more of it. According to BBD Its cheaper than underground tunnelling and faster to build. And it has no impact on road space and traffic. It would have been great to see the eastern part of the crosstown be on elevated platform.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transportation/products-services/transportation-systems.html

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp.../transportation-systems/automated-metros.html

 

[robmausser]

Almost all of that plan is along existing grade-separated heavy-rail corridors. Try suggesting they put an elevated LRT down Pie-IX and see what happens.

Not true at all

http://cdpqinfra.com/sites/all/files/document/document_portesouvertes_en.pdf

The portion in red is on railway corridors, the rest is elevated. That is not "most", its barely half.

 

[nfitz]

Not true at all

Certainly more than half. You ignore that some of the alignment is on the remnants of the Doney spur.

And much of what isn't on existing lines, are along, or even in the median, or existing autoroutes.

Your point made was that Montreal area much more accepting of elevated rail in Toronto - and this despite that there is far more in Toronto - and no one is proposing putting elevated rail down roads like Pie-IX, but instead are using existing rail and expressway corridors.

The bottom line, is there was no basis to your point, even if you want to turn that into a debate on what percentage of the new (?) proposal is along existing rail corridor compared to existing highway corridor.

 

[cplchanb]

Your point made was that Montreal area much more accepting of elevated rail in Toronto - and this despite that there is far more in Toronto -

All of the elevated sections were made in the 60s when population and building densities were far less and the mindset of the population wasnt so polarising.
Try building all those sections today. I bet that none of them would ever get past the "study" stage. Weve been so ingrained that underground is the only way to go these days,
we fail to see that there are other options out there and that the "eyesore" as many like to fall back on isnt as bad as one may perceive.

 

[robmausser]

All of the elevated sections were made in the 60s when population and building densities were far less and the mindset of the population wasnt so polarising.
Try building all those sections today. I bet that none of them would ever get past the "study" stage. Weve been so ingrained that underground is the only way to go these days,
we fail to see that there are other options out there and that the "eyesore" as many like to fall back on isnt as bad as one may perceive.

Exactly my point thank you.

So what if there is elevated rail in Toronto (a very small amount by the way) from the 1980's and before. I'm talking about today. Now.

The idea was floated for the Crosstown to be elevated in the eastern section, and it was shot down very very quickly.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...ed_transit_among_metrolinxs_alternatives.html

 

[Burnt creek]

Exactly my point thank you.

So what if there is elevated rail in Toronto (a very small amount by the way) from the 1980's and before. I'm talking about today. Now.

The idea was floated for the Crosstown to be elevated in the eastern section, and it was shot down very very quickly.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...ed_transit_among_metrolinxs_alternatives.html

What struck me about that article is the quote stating you cant elevate the tracks because there are issues with the lenght of the train and community opposition. I just dont buy it. I think people with ulterior motives like to throw out there things like this.

Chicago's subway is mostly elevated and that certainly isnt a short train. As for community opposition, how is this going to disrupt the community anymore than the current plans?

The best one i heard was that elevated rail was bad idea because it would cause shadows . I got a good laugh out of that one. BTW, that one came from the city planner; read that one in the Star a year or so back. Since buildings also create shadows, we should stop all contstruction.

 

[robmausser]

Here's a great example of the differences in culture between Montreal and Toronto when it comes to infrastructure.

Here is an article in French on the Montreal REM plan, as I discussed before.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/...aisse-slr-laval-montreal-deux-montagnes.shtml

Heres a snippet translated from it with interviews from 2 people who will be affected by the plan, both expropriation, and more trains.

Commuter trains already pass by the home of Carole Legault, Laval, in Bigras and Pariseau Islands area. But with the metropolitan power grid, the new trains will run every 6-12 minutes.

" It does not bother me. I like having the passing train every day, often, it would be even better. The only thing that bothers me is their horn at night, "says Carole Legault.

Other residents, like Pierre Voyer, could suffer more consequences with the arrival of this new transport system. Its terrain is part of the list of those where there are land reserves.

For at least two years, he can do anything on his land and his house, except for repairs.And at this point, he does not know why one would need his land.

"I've lived here all my life [...] If it is for the good of the majority and if it is for the advancement of transport, it must be that it goes on the field someone, "he said.

Compare that to Torontonians

http://globalnews.ca/news/2001758/r...on-pearson-express-construction-noise-damage/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...e-due-to-hard-ground-metrolinx-says-1.3434769
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-annoys-junction-triangle-residents-1.3156435
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...t-be-expropriated-for-scarborough-subway.html

 

[cplchanb]

wow just really puts us to shame how self centred many of us Torontonians are when it comes to transit and infrastructure.

 

[APTA-2048]

Wow, with just one article you guys make it sound like NIMBYism doesn't exist in Montreal.

 

[cplchanb]

Wow, with just one article you guys make it sound like NIMBYism doesn't exist in Montreal.

Please find me an article relating to Toronto where theres the same sentiment as Montreal RER.