VIA Rail

[dowlingm]

Catching the next train is only a viable option if the next train is not 24 hours later!

Sure, but then that’s likely part of the negotiations with Amtrak:
- Allow a Chicago person to get to Detroit, either directly or as extended Wolverine, in time to cross the tunnel
- Schedule the train to arrive with the next VIA 60 mins later (or whatever “usual” processing time for 95 or 99 percentile is)
- ensure there is at least one train scheduled to follow

Presumably you’re looking at some sort of noon crossing so that there is time to turn and return the train so Toronto passengers make it through to Chicago

 

[nfitz]

Heck, the fact that there isn’t a Montreal-Sherbrooke train service is frustrating. Decent population, lots of students and already heavily travelled by bus.

Even when I've taken the train to Sherbrooke, most people took the bus, because it was faster and more convenient - doesn't it actually stop near campus?

 

[dowlingm]

Even when I've taken the train to Sherbrooke, most people took the bus, because it was faster and more convenient - doesn't it actually stop near campus?

Has there been a train to Sherbrooke since 1994 when the Atlantic got the chop?

That said, the open rail option does come quite south compared to the road route, and OpenRailwayMap says speeds are mostly Class 2, presumably reflecting the usual maintenance cost cutting once pesky passenger trains are evicted.

 

[nfitz]

Has there been a train to Sherbrooke since 1994 when the Atlantic got the chop?

I'm not sure it even lasted that long ... I haven't used it since the late 1980s. I guess the trans-con used to stop there, but there was at least one additional train that was good for getting from Montreal to Sherbrooke after work, and terminated in Sherbrooke.

 

[Urban Sky]

I'm not sure it even lasted that long ... I haven't used it since the late 1980s. I guess the trans-con used to stop there, but there was at least one additional train that was good for getting from Montreal to Sherbrooke after work, and terminated in Sherbrooke.

Daily commuter rail service got chopped during the January 1990 cuts, the Atlantic stopped operating on December 16, 1994 (with its three frequencies per week transfered to the Ocean, thus doubling the latter’s frequency from 3 to 6 tpw)…

 

[roger1818]

Catching the next train is only a viable option if the next train is not 24 hours later!

VIA has about 4 trains a day to Toronto, so it likely wouldn't be a 24 hour wait eastbound. Granted that could be more of a problem westbound if Amtrak only has 1 train a day from Windsor, though they do have 3 departures a day from Detroit, so there could be the option of crossing the river and catching another train there. Who knows, Amtrak might even offer a shuttle to connect to the other trains to help cover this eventuality and gauge demand for more departures from Windsor.

Presumably you’re looking at some sort of noon crossing so that there is time to turn and return the train so Toronto passengers make it through to Chicago

The first train from Chicago (6:45am departure) currently arrives in Detroit at 1:25pm. I wouldn't expect the return trip to depart Windsor anytime before 2:00pm (most likely later). The last return trip to Chicago departs Detroit at 6:11pm and arrives in Chicago at 9:54pm, I suspect the schedule would need to change though. Hopefully the train to Windsor would be in addition to the existing trains to Pontiac.

 

[micheal_can]

Maybe once it is up and running, Via could extend one train a day to Detroit.

 

[Urban Sky]

Transport Action Canada quoted some schedule, which showed that eastbound passenger delayed by Canadian border processing would have a later train (Train 78) to catch to Toronto, whereas westbound passengers getting delayed by American border processing would miss the last train from Detroit to Chicago:

Spoiler

As long as the same train travelling from Chicago to Windsor also returns to Chicago the same day, there is very little wiggle room to move either schedule…

 

[nfitz]

Transport Canada quoted some schedule, which showed that eastbound passenger delayed by Canadian border processing would have a later train (Train 78) to catch to Toronto, whereas westbound passengers getting delayed by American border processing would miss the last train from Detroit to Chicago:
View attachment 689771
As long as the same train travelling from Chicago to Windsor also returns to Chicago the same day, there is very little wiggle room to move either schedule…

About 6.5 hours from Chicago to Detroit, but only 4.5 hours from Detroit to Chicago?

I haven't been paying too much attention. Are they planning a bus bridge between the two Windsor stations?

 

[Urban Sky]

About 6.5 hours from Chicago to Detroit, but only 4.5 hours from Detroit to Chicago?

Chicago timings are of course in Central Time, so 5.5 hours both ways.

I haven't been paying too much attention. Are they planning a bus bridge between the two Windsor stations?

The plan is to have the Amtrak train terminate/originate at a new border processing terminal at the existing VIA station in Windsor (Walkerville).

 

[nfitz]

Chicago timings are of course in Central Time, so 5.5 hours both ways.

Of course! I should have figured that one out.

The plan is to have the Amtrak train terminate/originate at a new border processing terminal at the existing VIA station in Windsor (Walkerville).

So it would travel from the new Amtrak station to the VIA station?

I'm surprised they put in two border facilities. Wouldn't leaving the VIA station alone, and simply processing everyone who boards at VIA Windsor at the new Windsor Amtrak station be simpler?

 

[Urban Sky]

So it would travel from the new Amtrak station to the VIA station?

There would only be one station, though with two distinct areas - one for VIA and one for Amtrak.

I'm surprised they put in two border facilities. Wouldn't leaving the VIA station alone, and simply processing everyone who boards at VIA Windsor at the new Windsor Amtrak station be simpler?
View attachment 689798

“Amtrak” and “VIA” refer to the different trains, not different stations…

 

[Jonny5]

Catching the next train is only a viable option if the next train is not 24 hours later!

They don't care. I once had a reason to take the bus to Syracuse from Toronto. It crossed at Queenston Lewiston into the US.
Someone had entry denied by US border agents and they told her to leave and walk back across the bridge to Canada.
She said "But how can I get home?"
The response was simply "I don't care. Leave right now without saying anything more or we arrest you for immigration fraud and put you in jail while awaiting court hearings."

This happened something like eight years ago. I imagine it's worse now.

 

[nfitz]

There would only be one station, though with two distinct areas - one for VIA and one for Amtrak.

I'm really, really, suprised (and impressed) that it could get from the existing Amtrak station, to the existing VIA station, in only 15 minutes.

The main Amtrak Detroit station at Woodward and East Baltimore?

So after it arrives there from Dearborn (Dearborn Transit Center) it would have to back out the Grand Trunk (CN) track from the station - for 4 km, and then change, presumably through low-speed switches, to the North Yard Branch, and do 1.5 km and two very tight curves onto the old Michigan Central line, through the tunnel (about 3 km to the border), onto the CP track for 4 km and then change to the Essex Terminal Railway for 5.5 km to the VIA track. And then change direction again for 2 km into the VIA Windsor station? Almost 20 km! In 15-minutes!

That makes VIA's 20-minute 18-km tour-de-Montreal from Dorval Station to Central Station look like a cakewalk!

They could save some time by not using the Amtrak station in Detroit, and then built new platforms where the Michigan Central Detroit Station platforms were - but you still have to do 13-km, through the tunnel, and over some slow track, before reversing direction to the VIA station.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just rebuild the Michigan Central Windsor station, and put the border stuff there. And after clearing customs for the train to wind slowly to the VIA station (though surely a bus bridge, or a 5-minute taxi ride woud make more economic sense.

They don't care. I once had a reason to take the bus to Syracuse from Toronto. It crossed at Queenston Lewiston into the US.
Someone had entry denied by US border agents and they told her to leave and walk back across the bridge to Canada.
She said "But how can I get home?"
The response was simply "I don't care. Leave right now without saying anything more or we arrest you for immigration fraud and put you in jail while awaiting court hearings."

This happened something like eight years ago. I imagine it's worse now.

Are you sure this was the Lewiston Bridge? Did it used to have a sidewalk?

I'd have thought that bus traffic would have used the Rainbow Bridge.

 

[dowlingm]

Now we are adding the cost of rebuilding a station on the CPR to modern standards, even before we get into the CPR wanting that in their way when they only promised some tunnel slots?

It’s starting to make my “rebuild the old CN Sarnia tunnel for passenger and extend Blue Water to the VIA” look positively rational