VIA Rail

[reaperexpress]

Last time I took Via from Union, I saw my train to Ottawa sitting directly across the platform from the GO Train I arrived on. The doors were open so I could have just walked on, but I wanted to grab something to eat.

So I went down the food court in the York Concourse, bought some food, and went back up to the platform via the York Concourse. When I boarded the empty train, the Via attendant just asked if I wanted train 46, which I did. And then I was able to comfortably eat my meal on the nice big Siemens traytables rather than standing around in line in the Via Concourse waiting to come back upstairs.

It was a massive improvement from my usual experience boarding at Union. I think I will do it again next time I depart from Union, but I wouldn't recommend it to a stranger because not all platforms are accessible from all concourses. You need good station familiarity or at least a good map to quickly find another entrance to the platform.

The train also arrived on the platform next to the building in Ottawa, so I was able to walk straight off the train into the building (arriving passengers can use all available doors into the station, unlike departures who are forced to queue single-file through a single door while the other doors sit unused).

The trip was great, it really felt like riding a train in Europe again, especially when combined with the smooth ride and sturdy build quality of the Siemens sets, the on-time departure and arrival, and 160 km/h running (this was during the brief blissful period after the Siemens sets got approval for full track speed but before CN imposed the restrictions at crossings). I also spotted another train going the opposite direction that was maybe a little too excited about the newly increased speeds:

 

[reaperexpress]

There is a reduction in the racks. The LRC/HEPs typically have three sets of racks as you enter the car, whereas the Venture as two sets at the end of the car (except for the cab car where the racks are in the middle). The racks on the Venture are seemiingly less wide and less deep.The bicycle rack that was built into the Venture would take one of these two racks out of service to accomocade for a maxinmum of two bikes, which is probabyl why they haven't begun with the Carry-on bikes. They made the overhead space one big open rack to compensate.

If they want more baggage space in the Ventures they could potentially replace some or all of the seats that don't have any windows. These seats are not bookable by the public (thankfully), they're reserved for Via employees. I'm not sure under what conditions they would actually sit there, on my trip they were never used. Maybe it's like the jumpseat on a plane where a perk of Via employment is that you can just hop on a Via train and use that seat for little or no cost. This particular coach has four seats with no windows, which seems like it's more than you'd need for employees.

 

[Sauga89]

The even bigger bottleneck (also at Gare Centrale and in Ottawa except the new platform at the latter) is the vertical accesses which only allow unidirectional passenger flows…

This is why I wonder if Ottawa's station could use a second tunnel (or a pedestrian bridge) linking the platforms. You could keep the existing tunnel for "Departures" (EDIT: I originally said arrivals, I meant departures), and then direct people to exit towards a new tunnel linked to the LRT station, and a new bus terminal/parking lot to the south. The way it is now, as I understand it, you can either load or unload a train through the pedestrian tunnel, but not both simultaneously.

I know that with the closest side-platform, you can have a train boarding there, while another at an island platform is disembarking, but I suspect with HSR, you'll see people getting on and off through trains. I don't know how VIA would handle people getting on and off a Toronto-bound through train from Montreal at the same time as people get on and off a Montreal-bound train from Toronto. One train would have to use an island platform, with passengers going opposite directions through the tunnel. I don't remember it being wide-enough for that (EDIT: but I could be mistaken). Unless the plan would be for all through trains to use the side-platform and wait for the previous train to clear?

Someone smarter than me might be able to find another solution, but I'm not seeing it. Union at least has multiple exits to its island platforms.

Browsing through previous posts, I found this plan, but I can't tell if it includes a second pedestrian tunnel or not, or just plans to update the platform access from the existing tunnel.

Even if HSR is never built, a new tunnel would probably help foot-traffic flow through the station better and could also link the LRT better to the area south of the tracks, allowing for more residential development.

 

[Urban Sky]

This is why I wonder if Ottawa's station could use a second tunnel (or a pedestrian bridge) linking the platforms. You could keep the existing tunnel for "Arrivals," and then direct people to exit towards a new tunnel linked to the LRT station, and a new bus terminal/parking lot to the south. The way it is now, as I understand it, you can either load or unload a train through the pedestrian tunnel, but not both simultaneously.

I know that with the closest side-platform, you can have a train boarding there, while another at an island platform is disembarking, but I suspect with HSR, you'll see people getting on and off through trains. I don't know how VIA would handle people getting on and off a Toronto-bound through train from Montreal at the same time as people get on and off a Montreal-bound train from Toronto. One train would have to use an island platform, with passengers going opposite directions through the tunnel. I don't remember it being wide-enough for that (EDIT: but I could be mistaken). Unless the plan would be for all through trains to use the side-platform and wait for the previous train to clear?

At least with hourly HxR M-O-T Express service, you could always use the main platform as long as the departure times are offset by a full hour and keep the other platforms (only accessible through the tunnel) for the Local services which will all either originate or terminate in Ottawa. Only in the case of big delays, you would have to route them through the other platforms, where they might accumulate additional dwellings time (and thus delays) of 10 minutes.

Not ideal, but manageable (until frequencies are increased to every 30 minutes, which would require a second or wider tunnel and wider platforms…

 

[crs1026]

As if things can't get worse - I am told that CN has lowered the zone speed limit along the Guelph Sub west of Kitchener, which is used by VIA trains 84 and 87..... to between 20 and 30 mph.

One has to assume that CN is applying leverage towards...... something.

This is patently absurd, but the indifference of Ottawa and Queens Park to the potential of this route (other than as a short term self serving GO train photo op) just infuriates me.

But it is what it is.

- Paul

PS - maybe we need a media covered cycling event with a challenge: who can beat the train from London to St Mary's on their bicycle?

 

[reaperexpress]

Never forget what they promised before the 2022 election in which they were re-elected with a majority of seats in Legislature.

 

[Urban Sky]

Train 65 seems to be involved in a tresspasser incident near the Highway 6 crossing in Amherstville:

Note: 65 has somehow become 75 in above screenshot.

What I find interesting is that all affected VIA trains seem to be holding at different VIA stations, which will presumably aid bringing food supplies to the passengers and evacuating them if necessary:

• Train 55 in BRKV
• Trains 645 and 67 in GANA
• Train 47 in KGON
• Train 42 in NAPN
• Trains 644 and 64 in BLVL
• Trains 66 and 46 in TRTJ

Could this be a lesson learned from previous mass incidents (e.g., the winter snow storm in 2021)?

[Edit: Screenshot updated at 6.10pm]

 

[micheal_can]

Never forget what they promised before the 2022 election in which they were re-elected with a majority of seats in Legislature.


View attachment 616021

Didn't they try it and had it scheduled so no one could use it?

 

[Sunnyside]

I know this one was my fault… but I decided to try and take VIA yesterday from Aldershot to Union, thinking maybe they kept a single track open for VIA’s use on the LSW corridor. I didn’t see anything on UT to the contrary… so I took a bet.

Turns out to have been a big mistake. Not only did the train arrive an hour late, it took the Halton and Weston Subs to get to Union instead. I was sortof ok with this, as I figured getting to ride on the Halton sub is uncommon, and I should have known a diversion was in the cards.

What really bothered me was that we stopped 4 times for CN trains to pass on this double tracked corridor, and it had clearly stopped 2-3 times in the Brantford-Dundas section before I even got on. Why did we do this?

All in all, my 9:30 train got to Union at 12:40, rather than 10:50, for what’s supposed to be a 40-minute ride. I could excuse the diversion if there was any semblance of trying to make the journey in a fast manner, but we even stopped at Brampton GO, for some reason. I didn’t even see a train pass at that point either.

I know there were GO buses to make this trip, but I wanted to see what VIA could offer. Obviously I took a GO bus back to connect at Oakville GO in the evening, which was longer than a typical journey, but many times better than what VIA subjected me to. This was by far my worst experience to date, far worse than anything I’ve experienced on TO-MO or TO-OT. I accept partial fault, but this was just so unenjoyable.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

What really bothered me was that we stopped 4 times for CN trains to pass on this double tracked corridor, and it had clearly stopped 2-3 times in the Brantford-Dundas section before I even got on. Why did we do this?

The Halton sub actually isn't fully double track, there are single track sections through Milton and Scotch Block, and a few single track bridges too.

 

[Sunnyside]

The Halton sub actually isn't fully double track, there are single track sections through Milton and Scotch Block, and a few single track bridges too.

That would explain the stopping on that section, then. Still shocked at how frequent it was though.

 

[nfitz]

That would explain the stopping on that section, then. Still shocked at how frequent it was though.

It is the CN mainline - so a very busy line.

I do love how CN only needs a single track, when VIA isn't paying for 2 or 3!

 

[Sunnyside]

It is the CN mainline - so a very busy line.

I do love how CN only needs a single track, when VIA isn't paying for 2 or 3!

I knew it was the mainline, not that unfamiliar with its limitations given I ride from Hamilton and Kitchener often. But I agree- shocking but impressive they only 'need' a single track with trains every 20 minutes or so (it felt like that, anyway). Obviously they had passing tracks, but still.

I should also note I was impressed with the speed of the line, given it's not 'meant' for it. In retrospect, with some pinpoint infrastructure, I can see how semi-usable passenger service can operate on such shared corridors, albeit with more coordination between CN/whichever public operator. For me, it showed the amount of new infra necessary needn't always be a mountain over a molehill.

 

[crs1026]

I knew it was the mainline, not that unfamiliar with its limitations given I ride from Hamilton and Kitchener often. But I agree- shocking but impressive they only 'need' a single track with trains every 20 minutes or so (it felt like that, anyway). Obviously they had passing tracks, but still.

I should also note I was impressed with the speed of the line, given it's not 'meant' for it. In retrospect, with some pinpoint infrastructure, I can see how semi-usable passenger service can operate on such shared corridors, albeit with more coordination between CN/whichever public operator. For me, it showed the amount of new infra necessary needn't always be a mountain over a molehill.

If you look at where the single track sections are on the Halton Sub, most are over very deep river valleys (Tansley, Stewarttown, Humber) or smaller waterways (Speyside) where doubling the line would be hugely costly and likely trigger extensive environmental processes.

On a 24-hour basis, the line is still well within the capacity of a properly signalled mixed single/double track line with long passing track sections and favourable track speeds. But it's not designed to handle multiple passenger trains on top of that freight traffic, and the passengers happened to need the line just when CN had its most busy periods in the day. I give CN credit for accommodating VIA both west and east of Union during the recent work blocks on the Lakeshore.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

As if things can't get worse - I am told that CN has lowered the zone speed limit along the Guelph Sub west of Kitchener, which is used by VIA trains 84 and 87..... to between 20 and 30 mph.

One has to assume that CN is applying leverage towards...... something.

This is patently absurd, but the indifference of Ottawa and Queens Park to the potential of this route (other than as a short term self serving GO train photo op) just infuriates me.

But it is what it is.

- Paul

PS - maybe we need a media covered cycling event with a challenge: who can beat the train from London to St Mary's on their bicycle?

View attachment 615995

The only thing I can think of is that CN doesn't want to own the GEXR track anymore and wants VIA to purchase it like they did for the track to Ottawa? They clearly have no interest in repairing the track, and VIA would have/want to to get things back to a good speed.

It could be a way to try to negotiate a better price rather than saying "We dont want this" because saying that is basically admitting "name your price"

Rather they want VIA to come ask THEM to buy it, which puts the negotiation ability in CN's favour.

I am curious, lets say VIA bought it and replaced it with Class 6 110mph track, how much time would be shaved off the London-Toronto trains that go through Kitchener?