VIA Rail

[littlewill1166]

I challenge both of you to name a single intercity passenger rail service on this planet which grants passengers unrestricted access at any of its metropolitan termini onto platforms which are as narrow, as low and as busy as Union Station.

We can discuss all we want about what VIA could do if it had contemporary platform infrastructure, VIA's processes won't change as long as these hard constraints don't change...

I'm not sure this was the point. For me, I'm trying to say that VIA should have a look at commuter operators in North America and adopt aspects of their operating models to increase efficiency and reduce overhead costs (which will hopefully result in lower ticket prices).

 

[drum118]

Passports are scan as well having a photo of you taken from my experience.

A number of train stations platforms in Europe are moving to a gate system where you need your ticket to get pass the gate to catch your train and onto the platform. Most stations allow you to walk freely onto the platform even without a ticket.

Brussels has an waiting area for the Eurostar. I know there is a waiting area in London for the Eurostar behind a screen off area. In Paris, trains are behind a screen area with riders standing in long lines on the 2nd floor in a screen area.

Can't recalled what took place in Madrid.

VIA will not allow anyone onto their platform until about 5 minutes before the train arrives and you need a ticket to do so from what I have seen and had to do last year. This only applies to various station as the rest you can walk onto freely without a ticket.

 

[Allandale25]

Article here: https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...ate-ptc-plans-outlined-for-125-mph-operation/

 

[roger1818]

I'm not sure this was the point. For me, I'm trying to say that VIA should have a look at commuter operators in North America and adopt aspects of their operating models to increase efficiency and reduce overhead costs (which will hopefully result in lower ticket prices).

One big difference between commuters and intercity travelers is luggage. What percentage of commuters have a large suitcase in tow? Now what percentage of intercity travelers do?

The three stations in discussion only have one escalator to each platform. With commuters, you can set it to the up direction and have most people use stairs to go down and the few people with luggage can use the elevator. Redirecting people with luggage to elevators doesn't work well if the passenger volume using them exceed its capacity throughput. Having a second escalator that runs in the opposite direction helps significantly.

Of course the other issue is what to do with people who get on the wrong train (which one reason to check the ticket before you get onboard). With a commuter train, the first station will be much sooner than with an intercity train, and in most cases it is easier to backtrack to your origin.

 

[crs1026]

Of course the other issue is what to do with people who get on the wrong train (which one reason to check the ticket before you get onboard). With a commuter train, the first station will be much sooner than with an intercity train, and in most cases it is easier to backtrack to your origin.

I am hoping that the new Siemens equipment will make this much more difficult by virtue of better destination signage at each car.

This is an area where VIA can indeed match the best of breed elsewhere, if they try. I have been on trains that had a display at each seat stating whether it was reserved or available. Somewhere I even rode one that displayed my name above my seat so I knew it was reserved for me.

Similarly, plenty of operators have accurate timely wayfinding displays on the platform that indicate how cars are numbered, where the doors on Car X will actually stop, etc. Including this kind of technology is probably last-decade at this point, so hardly risky or experimental - and I hope VIA has included it in the new equipment plans.

- Paul

 

[Urban Sky]

Somewhere I even rode one that displayed my name above my seat so I knew it was reserved for me.

I've only ever seen (or heard of) that on Irish Rail, but I imagine that especially female passengers might fear to get stalked after the trip. However, you can use the name section to "customize" your name tag:

https://twitter.com/x/status/671001724723863552

You can find more humorous train name tags here:

10 times people wonderfully took the piss with their Irish Rail seat names

Sure what else would you be doing, putting down your real name? Nah.

www.dailyedge.ie

 

[roger1818]

I've only ever seen (or heard of that) on Irish Rail, but I imagine that especially female passengers might fear to get stalked after the trip. However, you can use the name section to "customize" your name tag:

I seem to remember seeing it on an ICE train I took in the summer of 2018.

 

[Urban Sky]

I seem to remember seeing it on an ICE train I took in the summer of 2018.

German trains only show booked origin and destination station for any passengers on a given seat, but certainly no personal information, as such information (except age for international journeys) are not collected (except for payment purposes and identification purposes when the online ticket is validated)…

Source: Bahnreise-wiki.de

 

[roger1818]

I know this video is about Amtrak, but he could very well be talking about Paul Langa and VIA Rail.

 

[Urban Sky]

I don't think bog standard passport control is "border paranoia". I don't recall the process much at all - I don't think it was much more than flashing your passport - though perhaps they scan now.

As a formerly regular passenger on board the Eurostar (studied 3 years in the UK and visited my parents in Germany during each semester break), I recall that the UK border police sometimes didn't just check passport of all passengers before boarding the train in Brussels, but also again after arrival in London. However, I guess I can count myself lucky that my family lives in Frankfurt and not Southern France, as this would have earned me a one-hour get-out-of-the-train-with-all-your-luggage-and-then-wait-to-get-screened-and-reboarded-again stopover in Lille:

Eurostar direct to Lyon, Avignon & Marseille | Times, prices, tickets

Information for the direct Eurostar from London to Lyon, Avignon & Marseille. Ran up to 4 times a week May-Septembe, currently cancelled since 2020 due to the pandemic and now Brexit. Times, fares, online tickets.

www.seat61.com

I'm not sure this was the point. For me, I'm trying to say that VIA should have a look at commuter operators in North America and adopt aspects of their operating models to increase efficiency and reduce overhead costs (which will hopefully result in lower ticket prices).

No amount of studying commuter and regional rail networks and their procedures will change that their operational and commercial needs are as fundamentally different as their timetable characteristics are (e.g. frequency, number of stops, scheduled dwell time at stations), which is the main driver for their operational procedures (and for why they differ so notably between each other - almost universally across this planet).

Also, if you want lower ticket prices, you should put your hopes on a decrease in demand or an increase in supply, but certainly not on a decrease in higher average costs. The minimum price a carrier may charge its passengers is the marginal cost of transporting its passengers and that is negligible for a passenger railroad (e.g. incremental fuel cost for transporting X kg of additional weight over a distance of Y km)...

 

[Natika33]

I'm not really sure I follow why queuing downstairs in the concourse is such a terrible thing (and really, no one even needs to queue until close to boarding as VIA has assigned seats). I'd much rather avoid waiting on a smelly or cold platform and the process of getting everyone up from concourse to platform and onto train has always been quick in my experience.

 

[crs1026]

I'm not really sure I follow why queuing downstairs in the concourse is such a terrible thing (and really, no one even needs to queue until close to boarding as VIA has assigned seats). I'd much rather avoid waiting on a smelly or cold platform and the process of getting everyone up from concourse to platform and onto train has always been quick in my experience.

It’s not really rational, but….

Queuing means standing, and at some point it leads to impatience. It’s a bit ableist - which is why airports have their preboarding of wheelchairs and children, so they don’t have to line up or move at a pace they can’t manage.

And queuing creates a mental state where people just want to get on board and know that they have a seat ……queuing and boarding is laden with uncertainty which human nature naturally seeks to resolve. Other cultures do queue a bit more patiently, but often there is a free-for-all somewhere in there also.

And there is the simple problem of too many bodies in a fairly small concourse.

I’m not praising airports, but they are set up a little better to announce and follow a standard ritual at the gate. The process on VIA always looks like they are making it up as they go….and they are just being slow to open the gate, or have forgotten that train. Gatekeepers at Union don’t look like they are in control of the process, even when they know the ropes. Not saying that airlines get this right, but VIA is a ways behind.

- Paul

 

[Natika33]

It’s not really rational, but….

Queuing means standing, and at some point it leads to impatience. It’s a bit ableist - which is why airports have their preboarding of wheelchairs and children, so they don’t have to line up or move at a pace they can’t manage.

And queuing creates a mental state where people just want to get on board and know that they have a seat ……queuing and boarding is laden with uncertainty which human nature naturally seeks to resolve. Other cultures do queue a bit more patiently, but often there is a free-for-all somewhere in there also.

And there is the simple problem of too many bodies in a fairly small concourse.

I’m not praising airports, but they are set up a little better to announce and follow a standard ritual at the gate. The process on VIA always looks like they are making it up as they go….and they are just being slow to open the gate, or have forgotten that train. Gatekeepers at Union don’t look like they are in control of the process, even when they know the ropes. Not saying that airlines get this right, but VIA is a ways behind.

- Paul

Thank you for your reply. I think you're right that it's not rationale: a) there no need to worry about having a seat or not - they're assigned - so why worry? b) there's no need to get there super early to line up - there's no security check and the ticket check takes two seconds. I suppose the staff could be better at communicating there's no train waiting upstairs (the turnover time between train arriving from A and departing for B is short), but couldn't people figure that out? You can literally hear (and feel) the rumble as they roll in! Don't get me wrong, I think there's lots to fix with VIA, but it mostly involves having more trains and routes, not the boarding process.

 

[crs1026]

Thank you for your reply. I think you're right that it's not rationale: a) there no need to worry about having a seat or not - they're assigned - so why worry? b) there's no need to get there super early to line up - there's no security check and the ticket check takes two seconds. I suppose the staff could be better at communicating there's no train waiting upstairs (the turnover time between train arriving from A and departing for B is short), but couldn't people figure that out? You can literally hear (and feel) the rumble as they roll in! Don't get me wrong, I think there's lots to fix with VIA, but it mostly involves having more trains and routes, not the boarding process.

A very simple solution would be to have a sign at the gate that says "GATE OPENS AT XX:XX". That might at least deter the queue until a few minutes before the posted time.

The challenge for VIA is - once posted, they need to make that happen on time every time. That's where the performance challenge lies.

- Paul

 

[roger1818]

Thank you for your reply. I think you're right that it's not rationale: a) there no need to worry about having a seat or not - they're assigned - so why worry? b) there's no need to get there super early to line up - there's no security check and the ticket check takes two seconds. I suppose the staff could be better at communicating there's no train waiting upstairs (the turnover time between train arriving from A and departing for B is short), but couldn't people figure that out? You can literally hear (and feel) the rumble as they roll in! Don't get me wrong, I think there's lots to fix with VIA, but it mostly involves having more trains and routes, not the boarding process.

Agreed. I think the queuing for VIA trains has more to do with heard mentality. Once one person starts a queue, FOMO makes everyone else feel like they need to join it. In reality there is no need to queue until they start boarding (though having a few people in queue gets things going faster). At a terminal station, it makes far more sense to wait in the comfort of the terminal than down on the platform. It is only at waypoints that having people waiting on the platform for the train makes sense.

A very simple solution would be to have a sign at the gate that says "GATE OPENS AT XX:XX". That might at least deter the queue until a few minutes before the posted time.

The challenge for VIA is - once posted, they need to make that happen on time every time. That's where the performance challenge lies.

- Paul

Maybe a better option would be to post a boarding time (which can be updated if there is a delay) along with the current time. I have found that airlines never start boarding at the time printed on your boarding pass, even if the flight is on schedule, so VIA could do the same and make it more of a time to get to the boarding area.