VIA Rail

[lenaitch]

Was there an emergency that immediately required emergency services to be called? Everything that I have read indicates that was that it wasn't until several hours into the ordeal that someone finally made the comment about needing medicine. Until that point, it was merely discomfort.

And again, recall that a raging storm is going on outside. The crews are responsible for the passengers. It is likely that they felt that it was safer inside the passenger car - sheltered, and with heat - than to be exposed to the elements.

Dan

I agree to a point, but when a situation is allowed to deteriorate to the point that the toilets aren't working, that can be a big deal for many. If you are on a road trip and run out of meds after a handful of hours, that could be on you, but it still creates a problem if you do. The thing with a passenger calling emergency services is there is really no other way to reach out. It's not like there is a 912 service that connects you to the Salvation Army, Red Cross or Pizza Pizza. As it has been discussed before, the RTC or VIA Ops should have a list of local services for each area and train crews should be empowered to request them. Evacuating a train, simply for its own sake, does seem rather pointless, given that many passengers might not be dressed for the arduous journey. Despite some of the dramatic social media posts, nobody was starving or dying of thirst, but I do think the issue of the toilets (and any other medical issue) did put it over a line.

 

[dowlingm]

Was there an emergency that immediately required emergency services to be called? Everything that I have read indicates that was that it wasn't until several hours into the ordeal that someone finally made the comment about needing medicine. Until that point, it was merely discomfort.

I think it was a no brainer for emergency services to be notified. It doesn’t mean immediate response but it does get their location known, their situation triaged, nearby resources considered. Better that then have an ad hoc response when the situation turned critical.

In the airline world, lots of aircraft in technical difficulties request “services standing by”. Most of those landings occur without incident, but it saves multiple minutes in having the response personnel reach their vehicles and stage to a nearby access point.

 

[dowlingm]

I’m trying to think what would have happened in Germany in a situation like this and reached the firm conclusion that the counties worst-affected would have declared a “State of Emergency”, which would have activated disaster-relief units from the military and the Technisches Hilfswerk (Federal Agency for Technical Relief), to reach the trains, provide the passengers and train with the necessary supplies and evacuate, as appropriate

unfortunately in this country civilian agencies need to consider whether requesting military aid to the civil power will expose them to decades of mockery.

 

[smallspy]

I agree to a point, but when a situation is allowed to deteriorate to the point that the toilets aren't working, that can be a big deal for many. If you are on a road trip and run out of meds after a handful of hours, that could be on you, but it still creates a problem if you do. The thing with a passenger calling emergency services is there is really no other way to reach out. It's not like there is a 912 service that connects you to the Salvation Army, Red Cross or Pizza Pizza. As it has been discussed before, the RTC or VIA Ops should have a list of local services for each area and train crews should be empowered to request them. Evacuating a train, simply for its own sake, does seem rather pointless, given that many passengers might not be dressed for the arduous journey. Despite some of the dramatic social media posts, nobody was starving or dying of thirst, but I do think the issue of the toilets (and any other medical issue) did put it over a line.

Right, but...... You know, raging snowstorm. To the point that they closed the highways. And while yes, they were parked in a town, that town also happened to be completely without power, so what was the better option?

Look, no matter which way you slice it, it was a shitty situation. And getting stuck always was going to be. But I'm frankly not seeing any way that it could have been handled any differently - save for communications, if that is in fact true - than it actually was.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

Right, but...... You know, raging snowstorm. To the point that they closed the highways. And while yes, they were parked in a town, that town also happened to be completely without power, so what was the better option?

Look, no matter which way you slice it, it was a shitty situation. And getting stuck always was going to be. But I'm frankly not seeing any way that it could have been handled any differently - save for communications, if that is in fact true - than it actually was.

Dan

Do the VIA stations have backup generator power? If so they could have moved the passengers to Cobourg station which has working washrooms and you could order pizza for everyone.

 

[smallspy]

Do the VIA stations have backup generator power? If so they could have moved the passengers to Cobourg station which has working washrooms and you could order pizza for everyone.

Almost certainly not enough power to turn the building into a shelter.

And who are they ordering pizza from? Need I remind you about the whole "raging blizzard" thing?

Dan

 

[crs1026]

The absence of toilets is problemmatic. Food and water becomes a problem after a period of time. People need to look after themselves for the short term, but people do not embark on a train bringing along survival rations for a longer period.

I don't have a problem with a five-hour trip becoming a ten- or twelve- hour trip, but when it's obvious that there is no tcd on relief, then the issue is not being managed.

Had VIA told the passengers definitively, we cant rescue you until tomorrow, but the rescue train will arrive in the morning..... well, that's a plan. People may be inconvenienced, it may not be the plan we hoped for, but we can judge the plan for good or bad. When there is no plan, and no communication, then VIA is at fault.

Had VIA said, look, we phoned around town looking for someone to deliver food, and maybe take people to a gas station for the washroom, but couldn't find anything.....I would appreciate the difficulty of the situation. When they did none of that, they can't be excused for the circumstances.

Sorry Yoda - but sometimes "try" is material.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

The absence of toilets is problemmatic. Food and water becomes a problem after a period of time. People need to look after themselves for the short term, but people do not embark on a train bringing along survival rations for a longer period.

I don't have a problem with a five-hour trip becoming a ten- or twelve- hour trip, but when it's obvious that there is no tcd on relief, then the issue is not being managed.

Had VIA told the passengers definitively, we cant rescue you until tomorrow, but the rescue train will arrive in the morning..... well, that's a plan. People may be inconvenienced, it may not be the plan we hoped for, but we can judge the plan for good or bad. When there is no plan, and no communication, then VIA is at fault.

Had VIA said, look, we phoned around town looking for someone to deliver food, and maybe take people to a gas station for the washroom, but couldn't find anything.....I would appreciate the difficulty of the situation. When they did none of that, they can't be excused for the circumstances.

- Paul

I think it's a fair point that they didn't TRY to remedy the situation nor did they care about customer comfort. It's what they could/should have done which is counter to what they did.

 

[TTCdinosaur]

If they didn't think they could run the trains safely, they should've canceled the trains. Continues to show that cars are the best way with the most control in Canada.

 

[Urban Sky]

If they didn't think they could run the trains safely, they should've canceled the trains. Continues to show that cars are the best way with the most control in Canada.

As someone who has spent quite a few days watching VIA’s OCC staff doing their work during quite a range of incidents, I can confidently say that none of these trains had left its origin if there had been any serious doubts about their safe operation. I doubt that the passengers who found their train cancelled the next day were much happier than those who got stuck. In the end, passengers pay for getting to their destination and expect their carrier-of-choice to at least try to honor their commitments…

 

[DirectionNorth]

Right, but...... You know, raging snowstorm. To the point that they closed the highways. And while yes, they were parked in a town, that town also happened to be completely without power, so what was the better option?

Look, no matter which way you slice it, it was a shitty situation. And getting stuck always was going to be. But I'm frankly not seeing any way that it could have been handled any differently - save for communications, if that is in fact true - than it actually was.

Dan

Almost certainly not enough power to turn the building into a shelter.

And who are they ordering pizza from? Need I remind you about the whole "raging blizzard" thing?

Dan

Excuse me while I rant, but this attitude is part of the problem.

Why did it take a passenger calling local first-responders, to get any action? Evidently there wasn't a problem getting to the train, because the first responders could do it. If there was a situation VIA Operations could, and should have been on the phones. Even to this suggestion, I got responses saying "it can't be done".

Does VIA not have backup plans for when trains can't run and there isn't shelter nearby? I understand it's exceedingly improbably here, but it could happen on the remote services or the Canadian. Nobody is going to keep survival supplies on a train to Ottawa or Montreal. Not having enough medicine for an extra couple of hours is just carelessness, but is there not a plan for what happens if there is an unexpected flood, or earthquake, or blizzard?

VIA should be trying to outcompete the airlines on convenience, reliability, and comfort, not on non-communication and bad customer service.

As someone who has spent quite a few days watching VIA’s OCC staff doing their work during quite a range of incidents, I can confidently say that none of these trains had left its origin if there had been any serious doubts about their safe operation. I doubt that the passengers who found their train cancelled the next day were much happier than those who got stuck. In the end, passengers pay for getting to their destination and expect their carrier-of-choice to at least try to honor their commitments…

Agreed. If they had cancelled trains, and everything else ran, the press would have had a field month.

 

[MisterF]

If they didn't think they could run the trains safely, they should've canceled the trains. Continues to show that cars are the best way with the most control in Canada.

Despite the issues last weekend, trains are by far the most reliable way to travel in winter storms. Let's not forget that most of the 401 and other highways were closed altogether.

 

[PinkLucy]

And while yes, they were parked in a town, that town also happened to be completely without power, so what was the better

This appears to be somewhat of an exaggeration. My sister lives in Cobourg and didn’t lose power. So while much of the town might have, it wasn’t an hours long total blackout.

 

[lenaitch]

We've all spent a few pages beating up on VIA, and probably rightly so (it is a VIA thread after all), they had several hundred people under their charge in several trains and didn't seem to have a solid handle on ensuring, or even assessing, their ongoing well being. They are not alone. Airline passengers endured sitting on the tarmac for hours to ultimately go nowhere (the lucky ones were still in the terminal). This was admittedly a large storm system that had widespread impacts, but this is winter - in Canada. They all need to do better.

 

[Northern Light]

If they didn't think they could run the trains safely, they should've canceled the trains. Continues to show that cars are the best way with the most control in Canada.

At it in another thread I see. I think we'll just afix the troll label and be done w/it.