DirectionNorth
Senior Member
Getting either cars (HFR) or planes (HSR) off the Corridor, would be beneficial.
With this country's past record, we're going to get neither.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
With this country's past record, we're going to get neither.
Cobra
Senior Member
HFR doesn't get significant cars off the road. Don't buy what they're trying to sell.
They sell HFR as this brilliant, fabulous and revolutionary plan, that's so last century and people aren't as gullible as our entitled disconnected people class think they are.
Unfortunately, Canadians are way too "polite" and they know it
ssiguy2
Senior Member
^^^ This is absolutely true. The reason no one in Canada is excited about HFR is that it is a non -accomplishment. All it will do {after the billions spent} is bring back the service levels, reliability, and speed that Canadians enjoyed 40 years ago. I remember taking VIA from Toronto to London and often the trains were full so they would have a London Express that would get me there in 90 minutes.
If Ottawa is NOT serious about HSR then they will announce a HSR line they will build with a new corridor and track they don't already own. In today's world, such a scheme from Quebec to Windsor would take a least a decade just to do the damn environmental reviews. ER have morphed into make-work projects that actually have little to do with environmental impacts as now they entail endless "community consultations" which has nothing to do with the environment but help to stall the projects. These reviews have gone from a much needed impact study on new infrastructure projects to NIMBYs and politicians best friends..................they allow for big announcements knowing that they will never get built..
The ONLY thing that Ottawa could say that would actually mean they are interested in HSR is that they are going to start buying CP/CN tracks and/or make use of their current corridors. If they say they won't need to do this with their shiny new plan then you can bet your bottom dollar, they are not the slightest bit interested.
If Ottawa is NOT serious about HSR then they will announce a HSR line they will build with a new corridor and track they don't already own. In today's world, such a scheme from Quebec to Windsor would take a least a decade just to do the damn environmental reviews. ER have morphed into make-work projects that actually have little to do with environmental impacts as now they entail endless "community consultations" which has nothing to do with the environment but help to stall the projects. These reviews have gone from a much needed impact study on new infrastructure projects to NIMBYs and politicians best friends..................they allow for big announcements knowing that they will never get built..
The ONLY thing that Ottawa could say that would actually mean they are interested in HSR is that they are going to start buying CP/CN tracks and/or make use of their current corridors. If they say they won't need to do this with their shiny new plan then you can bet your bottom dollar, they are not the slightest bit interested.
kEiThZ
Superstar
If HFR doesn't get cars off the road, HSR with even higher fares, most assuredly won't either.
Passengers are either fare sensitive (drive and take the bus) or time sensitive (fly). HSR aims to capture time sensitive pax. HFR aimed to capture fare sensitive pax.
The reason HSR and other trains can capture drivers in other countries is because driving is expensive. Toll highways. High fuel taxes. High parking charges. If you're going to spend €100 driving by yourself, might as well spend €120 and take a train. There's also transit that makes it possible to go without a car on the other side. In Canada though, driving is relatively cheap. Highways aren't tolled. Gas is relatively cheaper. And you can still find plenty of cheap (or even free) parking in every city. Transit isn't very usable in the suburbs. Imagine asking Canadians for $150-200 for HSR.
roger1818
Senior Member
Name a time in history where there were 15 trains between Toronto and Montreal? The "glory days" of The Turbo, there were 5, direct trains (plus two that required a transfer in Brockville) on weekdays (one of which was overnight), and only 1 of those was 4 hours. This is according to the 1976-10-31 schedule. Long waits for the next train is what makes the current schedule most uncompetitive, and today's schedule is about as good as it has ever been.
Of course you are also totally ignoring Ottawa in your conclusion, yet there is far more demand for travel between Toronto and Ottawa than there is between Toronto and Montreal.
Frank_Lee
Active Member
Anecdotally: among my peers, which I must admit are all highly educated 20-somethings (and so not very representative), the number one reason they don't take Via much more often over Megabus or driving is one or more bad experiences with delays. HFR deals with that.
lead82
Senior Member
Reliability in service is a huge draw to itself. People value their time and getting caught in a delay ruins the experience and puts people off the train. HFR should remove most of the delay issues cause by freight train priority. I just wish they had starting building the line already instead of wasting 7 years on nothing and small announcements for studies. HFR is a step towards HSR. Canada needs more than just HFR though, it needs a feeder system to get people to the HFR stations. In the big cities that is there but why not ramp up regular service from other towns to the HFR station - e.g. why is there not a train every 2 hrs from London to Toronto or service from Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge to Toronto more frequently. The more we beef up the local network the more passengers can be unlocked to take VIA.
Right now Megabus is cheaper and in most cases even faster than taking VIA. That makes zero sense. The other thing that VIA needs to do as a crown corp is to drop the idiotic airline style fare system. Go back to basics and price fares like GO by distance and class. So Toronto - Ottawa should be like $50/$60 each way in economy, and maybe $120 for business. Montreal a bit more. It's ok to have sales but having the airline model requires people to plan their trips ahead of time. Train travel needs to allow for more spontaneous trips, so that yes it can be cheaper to book ahead, but last minute trips should not be price gauging as it is today.
Right now Megabus is cheaper and in most cases even faster than taking VIA. That makes zero sense. The other thing that VIA needs to do as a crown corp is to drop the idiotic airline style fare system. Go back to basics and price fares like GO by distance and class. So Toronto - Ottawa should be like $50/$60 each way in economy, and maybe $120 for business. Montreal a bit more. It's ok to have sales but having the airline model requires people to plan their trips ahead of time. Train travel needs to allow for more spontaneous trips, so that yes it can be cheaper to book ahead, but last minute trips should not be price gauging as it is today.
crs1026
Superstar
VIA’s short-notice fares are pretty reasonable in comparison to Amtrak’s Accela - or any airline.
Whenever you have constrained capacity at peak, it’s good business to a) incent people to shift away from the peak and b) extract every last dollar from the people who are determined to ride on peak.
VIA gives plenty of access to lower priced fares. I happen to believe they are pretty good at managing demand and revenue.
CN’s Red White Blue fare scheme dates from the 1960’s. Nothing new to see here.
Have you tried booking TGV or Britrail in the last decade? Deep discounts for planned off peak travel are prevalent just about everywhere, at every price level.
- Paul
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Yep, pretty much every high speed operator in Europe has deep discounts if you book early. Last month I booked a Naples to Rome fare on Italo for 13 euros. We ended up wanting to stay in Naples for longer once we got there, so we just forfeited those tickets and booked new Trenitalia tickets for 33 euros.
MisterF
Senior Member
Kind of off topic, but Naples is seriously underrated as a travel destination. Most people use it as little more than a jumping off point for the Amalfi Coast but it's worth spending some time in the city itself. Articles and Youtube videos would have you believe it's dangerous and sketchy but that wasn't our experience at all. It's a great walking city and of course the pizza is amazing.
More on topic, we travelled with Italo on our trip too. The prices were more than reasonable. I'd love to see something like Italy's HSR system in the Corridor - it really is the best way to travel there. But I'd be happy with an HFR-type line with much improved schedules and reliability over what we have today.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
YES, it ended up being my favourite city in Italy, which is why we wanted to spend more time there.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
If you haven't bought your VIA ticket within a week of your travel date you can forget about it being affordable. Economy to ottawa is easily $100+ one way. Megabus is like $49. Driving is about $60.
littlewill1166
Active Member
That's what a stockpile of VIA Preference points is for.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The point is when it's for work you don't want to use your own points to save the company money. So what will happen is you will end up flying instead since porter is about the same price.