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VIA Rail

Bordercollie said:
But I think it would be good to have local and express trains provided that you can time transfers between them. Perhaps VIA runs express trains and GO run local ones? Or something to that extent, but buses to feed the stations should for sure be a requirement.
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Okay. Pony up the extra few billion to build the track capacity that allows for mixed operation.

There's all kinds of great things VIA could do if money rained down on them like a hip hop music video. Alas, we are finding it incredibly difficult just to approve what is supposed to be an express inter-metro corridor. And we're already bargaining service down on that one, before a shovel is in the ground.

Hard choices have to be made. Because if the current trends keep up, most here are likely to be around for the full privatization of VIA (and end of service as we know it).
 
kEiThZ said:
But instead we're now discussing HFR stopping at towns of a few thousand where you might be able to count passengers embarking on a hand with missing fingers.
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That would eliminate service to Smiths Falls then. And HFR would run non-stop from Fallowfield to Peterborough.

kEiThZ said:
Imagine delaying hundreds of passengers from Toronto going to Ottawa to pick up 2-3 people in Sharbot Lake.
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I'd imagine that those going from Toronto to Ottawa would be taking an frequent express, not an irregular milk-run.
 
We are assuming all kinds of things here.

First, not every little hick town is going to get service on HFR simply because someone brings it up.

Second, there are no plans to extend GO trains beyond Bowmanville.

Third, there are no plans to provide connecting bus service if we close existing VIA stations nor is it likely to make economic sense to provide a bus for two or three passengers. So, the outcome of closing stations will be no service at all.

Fourth, the HFR plan is designed to make the Lakeshore route for local service. So, why would we not want to have more trains stop at more stations to make sure that we maximize ridership? Effectively the Lakeshore route becomes GO all the way to Kingston although operated by VIA.
 
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nfitz said:
That would eliminate service to Smiths Falls then. And HFR would run non-stop from Fallowfield to Peterborough.
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If there's not enough ridership, I am okay with that. Put Smiths Falls on the Kingston-Ottawa service.

nfitz said:
I'd imagine that those going from Toronto to Ottawa would be taking an frequent express, not an irregular milk-run.
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If HFR is single track, there won't be track capacity for multiple differentiated services, si we'll have all semi-express services where every train has to pick up 1-2 of 3-4 smaller stations en route.

lrt's friend said:
Third, there are no plans to provide connecting bus service if we close existing VIA stations nor is it likely to make economic sense to provide a bus for two or three passengers. So, the outcome of closing stations will be no service at all.
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Stations aren't cheap to run or maintain. Just think of the parking lot maintenance in the winter alone. Eliminating smaller stations and replacing them with buses allows for multi-stop feeder bus routes into stations. Doesn't even have to be VIA that runs them.

lrt's friend said:
Fourth, the HFR plan is designed to make the Lakeshore route for local service. So, why would we not want to have more trains stop at more stations to make sure that we maximize ridership? Effectively the Lakeshore route becomes GO all the way to Kingston although operated by VIA.
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This is what most of us hope happens. My fear is that we end up with two slow corridors which utterly fail at serving the really high revenue inter-metro markets.
 
kEiThZ said:
If HFR is single track, there won't be track capacity for multiple differentiated services, si we'll have all semi-express services where every train has to pick up 1-2 of 3-4 smaller stations en route.
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In other countries, even HST tracks allow for express and non-express services - even with commuter trains running on them in some places. It's not unheard of of a two-track HST line to have stations with tracks at the station and 2 passing tracks. Have some runs stop at more stations doesn't preclude the operation of even HSR trains - let alone the regular speed trains that would be used on HFR.

kEiThZ said:
Stations aren't cheap to run or maintain. Just think of the parking lot maintenance in the winter alone.
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Some of the stations on the Trois-Rivieres route from Montreal to Toronto had little more than non-paved platform, wooden hut with a fireplace, and no parking. They certainly weren't staffed - though they must have had someone local pop in from time to time to keep an eye on things. Stations don't have to be any more expensive or complex as necessary.

kEiThZ said:
My fear is that we end up with two slow corridors which utterly fail at serving the really high revenue inter-metro markets.
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We already know that he HFR corridor from Montreal to Toronto is going to be no faster than the current corridor - so that is literally the plan.

Which is why I favour upgrading the current corridor incrementally.
 
nfitz said:
In other countries, even HST tracks allow for express and non-express services - even with commuter trains running on them in some places. It's not unheard of of a two-track HST line to have stations with tracks at the station and 2 passing tracks. Have some runs stop at more stations doesn't preclude the operation of even HSR trains - let alone the regular speed trains that would be used on HFR.

Some of the stations on the Trois-Rivieres route from Montreal to Toronto had little more than non-paved platform, wooden hut with a fireplace, and no parking. They certainly weren't staffed - though they must have had someone local pop in from time to time to keep an eye on things. Stations don't have to be any more expensive or complex as necessary.

We already know that he HFR corridor from Montreal to Toronto is going to be no faster than the current corridor - so that is literally the plan.

Which is why I favour upgrading the current corridor incrementally.
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Literally all you need is a 2 car platform, some ticket machines and some GO transit style shelters with heat.
 
  • Although VIA Trains may be scheduled to stop at a station, if there aren't any ticketed passengers expected to depart from the station, they don't stop.
  • The smaller stations in SWO (Ingersoll/Glencoe), are literally a shack, a gravel parking lot (completely unmanned and park at your own risk that doesn't get plowed), and a slab of asphalt.
  • No, this isn't an endorsement for rail service to all small communities not already served, busses deliver higher frequencies and provide a more direct service.
  • For small communities already served (Glencoe, Ingersoll, Wyoming), if you look on Google Maps these communities are completely walkable from the train station and don't require connecting for destinations within them. Glencoe and Wyoming also have passing sidings (although the one at Glencoe is poorly placed) where trains end up stopping for meets. People in these communities have grown to depend on VIA's service, and it would be in bad taste to do a rug pull without providing a suitable alternative.
  • As much as some people object to an HFR station at Tweed (for example). It's compact, meaning that people travelling there by train don't need to take another method of transport to get to their final destination within the town (unlike Paris, ON). There can be a passing siding placed there, where some trains will have to stop either way. HFR in its proposed initial form will be primarily single track. It would be good if there were platforms located at a regular interval to evacuate passengers if required.
 
kEiThZ said:
If there's not enough ridership, I am okay with that. Put Smiths Falls on the Kingston-Ottawa service.
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Smiths Falls does decently well all things considered. In 2018, it was VIA's 27th busiest station in the Corridor with 29,870 passengers boarding/deboarding. It even beat out Port Hope, Sarnia, Alexandria, St-Hyacinthe, and Trenton Jct, which all larger have larger populations. I am not sure why this is (Smiths Falls doesn't get particularly frequent service), but one factor might be its close proximity to Carleton Place.

kEiThZ said:
If HFR is single track, there won't be track capacity for multiple differentiated services, si we'll have all semi-express services where every train has to pick up 1-2 of 3-4 smaller stations en route.
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One way I could see this happening is trains during popular times of day to travel operating as express trains with limited stops, and trains operating during less popular times of day stopping at some of the smaller stations. Having said that, I don't see really small towns (like Sharbot Lake and Kaladar) having stations.

Tweed is a likely location for a station though. It is approximately 100km (driving) from Peterborough and approximately 130km (driving) from Smiths Falls. It is also about 40km from Belleville, which while it will have a station on the Lakeshore line, some might drive up to Tweed to catch an HFR train if the schedule is better (especially if traveling east).

Perth and Havelock are a bit more uncertain. If they do have stations, they would likely have very limited service.
 
Bordercollie said:
I feel bad for those employees put on leave.
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I wouldn't worry too much for them: VIA wouldn't be able to ramp-up its services (as it did on multiple occasions in 2020 and 2021) at only one month's notice, if it would just boot them off its payroll without offsetting part of the financial impact on its furloughed employees. Admittedly, employee retention beyond temporary reductions of its active workforce is a lot easier for a public railroad than in the private sector, but even listed companies like Air Canada will try their best to not loose their temporarily furloughed staff for good...
 
During the unveiling of the new Siemens coaches in Ottawa, I was disappointed to see that VIA was still using its manually-laid planks to bridge the gap between the train and the platform, rather than an automatic system (which would allow all doors to open at high-platform stations, not just the ones where an attendant has gone and dropped down a bridge plate).

But looking closely at the image of the new Siemens trains from the above linked article, there does actually seem to be a built-in gap filler under the planks they put down.

via-rail-covid-19-coronavirus-mask-travel.JPG


Enhance! Enhance!
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This is great to see, though I still have a few questions, like:
- Why did they lay down a manual bridge plate if there is already an automatic gap filler? Is the gap still too large? Are the platform heights not consistent enough?
- Why does the manual ramp seem to end up higher than the gap filler? Is there a steep slope inside the coach? A step?
 
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