VIA Rail

[nfitz]

Although I don't follow it that closely, I don't recall small community stops in the proposal.

I don't think we've seen a proposal that goes to that level of detail.

How the trains enter and leave Montreal to Trois-Rivieres remains a mystery, and there's still debates about how the trains will get into Toronto, with Metrolinx turning the Don Valley line VIA was talking about into a storage yard in the next few years - and the cancellation of the flyover at Scarborough station which would have let express trains turn up the Stouffville line without having to be on the local track first.

 

[crs1026]

The complexities of weaving milk runs into the planned service (single track w/passing tracks? I've lost track) I'll leave to others. Although I don't follow it that closely, I don't recall small community stops in the proposal.

Having the odd milk run stop may be little succor to having your doors rattled off by the through trains. In some areas there are permanent and seasonal properties that might have a reasonable cause of action for diminished value and enjoyment. It's not like an upgrade of usage; much of this hasn't been a rail line for nearly half a century.

VIA has some pretty clever ways of dealing with this in the corridor, such as spreading the local service across multiple express trains so that no one train makes more than one or two stops... this does not add oodles of trip time.

The worst case is that the base hourly express trains make one or two stops and that particular run takes longer. If there are enough sidings constructed, that won't wreck the overall service pattern or its marketability. Even a single "milk run" each day is doable if the sidings are adequate.

Havelock, Tweed, and Perth have made comments in the past that presumed a stop in their town. I would bet Sharbot Lake expects one. Those places west of Peterborough that had service back in the day may wonder if they will get it again. Kaladar may hope for one.

Ingersoll, St Marys, Strathroy, Gananoque are comparables.... a basic shelter for a station and very limited service every day. So long as no one waxes poetic and creates false expectations, a de minimus local service is doable. But add in a Durham Region stop, plus Eglinton or Kennedy....somewhere there is a limit.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

VIA has some pretty clever ways of dealing with this in the corridor, such as spreading the local service across multiple express trains so that no one train makes more than one or two stops... this does not add oodles of trip time.

The worst case is that the base hourly express trains make one or two stops and that particular run takes longer. If there are enough sidings constructed, that won't wreck the overall service pattern or its marketability. Even a single "milk run" each day is doable if the sidings are adequate.

Havelock, Tweed, and Perth have made comments in the past that presumed a stop in their town. I would bet Sharbot Lake expects one. Those places west of Peterborough that had service back in the day may wonder if they will get it again. Kaladar may hope for one.

Ingersoll, St Marys, Strathroy, Gananoque are comparables.... a basic shelter for a station and very limited service every day. So long as no one waxes poetic and creates false expectations, a de minimus local service is doable. But add in a Durham Region stop, plus Eglinton or Kennedy....somewhere there is a limit.

- Paul

And if towns east of Ottawa and between Mtl and QC catch on, it could get interesting.

 

[KevinT]

Having the odd milk run stop may be little succor to having your doors rattled off by the through trains.

My friend's house backs onto the CP MacTier sub in Bolton, and you can't even tell when a train is going by if you aren't paying attention, and those are all freights. I highly doubt anyone along this RoW is going to be having their doors rattled off...

 

[Bordercollie]

I use to live 500m from the Bala sub and you could hear the freight trains going bye at night. Go trains not so much. But if there was any track maintenance you knew about it for sure.

 

[kEiThZ]

Keep in mind that we aren't talking about slow rumbling freight or GO trains. We're talking about trains going through at 177 kph. It's bound to be louder, but shorter in duration. It's also bound to be frequent. 2-4x per hour all day. Public acceptance isn't going to be smooth in many places.

All reasons why it's annoying as hell that this is dragging on instead of getting started. Those fights can't even begin till the RFP is out.

 

[Urban Sky]

All reasons why it's annoying as hell that this is dragging on instead of getting started. Those fights can't even begin till the RFP is out.

Yesterday‘s editorial in the Globe and Mail shares your pain:

Four decisions Justin Trudeau has to stop avoiding​

[…]

High-frequency rail

Here’s one of those things the government seems to be deciding all the time, without ever deciding.

The Liberal government keeps making approving noises about high-frequency rail, but it still needs to make a go or no-go decision on the multibillion-dollar project to build new tracks for the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, at a cost of $4-billion to $6-billion.

That would be a strategic decision about the future of passenger rail, which comes second to freight service when it comes to deciding who gets to use railway tracks.

Via Rail has been backing the idea for years, but Justin Trudeau’s Liberals – and before them, Stephen Harper’s Conservatives – have been unwilling to set a direction for passenger rail. In 2016, when Mr. Trudeau’s Liberals had been in power for just months, then-auditor general Michael Ferguson complained in a report that the federal government had repeatedly ignored Via’s efforts to set a long-term strategic direction.

Since then, the Liberals have talked a lot about high-frequency rail. There has been planning and preprocurement spending. The government has repeatedly promised to launch a procurement process, but hasn’t yet. And what is still needed is the big yes-or-no commitment.

 

[Bordercollie]

Keep in mind that we aren't talking about slow rumbling freight or GO trains. We're talking about trains going through at 177 kph. It's bound to be louder, but shorter in duration. It's also bound to be frequent. 2-4x per hour all day. Public acceptance isn't going to be smooth in many places.

All reasons why it's annoying as hell that this is dragging on instead of getting started. Those fights can't even begin till the RFP is out.

The new locomotives are supposed to be quieter, and better track insulation can dampen some of the noise.

They are much quieter than a 150 car freight train with 4 locomotives and a DPU

 

[crs1026]

^At one of the ML consultations for the Davenport Diamond, opposed residents brought a cowbell which they rang every 7.5 minutes during the meeting. It was a pretty effective demonstration that while train noise may not be loud (as measured by their experts’ calculations) the pure frequency was an irritant. I thought it was a pretty compelling rebuttal of ML’s claim that a high frequency rail service can be “quiet”.

You can be sure that a horn and bell and rail noise every 30 minutes will be jangling to residents in places where today there is silence.

It didn’t stop us from building past railways, or highways, but it needs to be on the table. Per @kEiThZ ’s comments - we have been told there will be “consultaions” - I’m not sure this government has the appetite for rooms full of angry constituents, even if they are a small minority and there is a case for sacrifice in the greater good. If you think ML is evasive, let’s see how Ottawa handles this one.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

I use to live 500m from the Bala sub and you could hear the freight trains going bye at night. Go trains not so much. But if there was any track maintenance you knew about it for sure.

Indeed. As a shift worker, I used to live about 125m from a signalized crossing of the CP Mactier sub. After about 3 days I never heard a thing. A good point is made of shorter and lighter, but more frequent, trains. As well, the impact of crossing signal ,requirements which are at least partially driven by speed, may have an impact. In some areas, both private and municipal roads now cross or even follow the old ROW. I haven't done an extensive satellite search but in some villages it seems buildings have encroached onto or very close to the old ROW.

 

[MisterF]

I can't see Via trains going through a village like Tweed at 177 km/h. The built form is too tight for that. More likely it would be like the newly rebuilt line through Guelph and would need to slow down. There aren't a lot of towns where trains would have to slow down on the HFR route.

The places where a Via train goes through an urban community at speed have crossings farther apart, buildings farther from the tracks, etc. Cobourg for example, or most of the Lakeshore line in Toronto. If you live near the tracks in one of these areas the Via trains are barely noticeable.

 

[nfitz]

is there any recent history of public transit from Brantford to Paris?

How is there no VIA station in Paris - population 12,000 (and growing!) - while Ingersoll is the same population and gets service. Meanwhile St. Marys is only 7,300, Glencoe is 5,700, Wyoming is 7,600.

Even the oft-mentioned Smith Falls only has 8,800 (and shrinking since the early 1960s). Let alone the tiny villages along 7 which many assume will get some HFR service (Sharbot Lake is only 1,400!).

Looks like CN cut service sometime after 1967 - when the population was less than 6,500!

All those years living around there, and I never realised!

 

[christiesplits]

How is there no VIA station in Paris - population 12,000 (and growing!) - while Ingersoll is the same population and gets service. Meanwhile St. Marys is only 7,300, Glencoe is 5,700, Wyoming is 7,600.

Even the oft-mentioned Smith Falls only has 8,800 (and shrinking since the early 1960s). Let alone the tiny villages along 7 which many assume will get some HFR service (Sharbot Lake is only 1,400!).

Looks like CN cut service sometime after 1967 - when the population was less than 6,500!

All those years living around there, and I never realised!

I know VIA cut a lot of stations along that line in the 90s. Dundas (Hamilton) was one of them.

 

[Northern Light]

How is there no VIA station in Paris - population 12,000 (and growing!) - while Ingersoll is the same population and gets service. Meanwhile St. Marys is only 7,300, Glencoe is 5,700, Wyoming is 7,600.

Even the oft-mentioned Smith Falls only has 8,800 (and shrinking since the early 1960s). Let alone the tiny villages along 7 which many assume will get some HFR service (Sharbot Lake is only 1,400!).

Looks like CN cut service sometime after 1967 - when the population was less than 6,500!

All those years living around there, and I never realised!

Paris is only 11km from Brantford.

That would be quite close for VIA stations.

That's not to say one shouldn't be considered, but its not as if there isn't VIA service nearby.

Edit to add: This was the train station - credit embedded in image

From this link: https://images.ourontario.ca/brant/63837/data

The image description:

I'm assuming that 1968 is when the last train called in Paris..........

 

[cplchanb]

Paris is only 11km from Brantford.

That would be quite close for VIA stations.

That's not to say one shouldn't be considered, but its not as if there isn't VIA service nearby.

I think it can definitely be considered as part of an all stop service. The express service can bypass it.