VIA Rail

[crs1026]

given the mention of 200km/h, I suspect we are looking at a primarily new alignment between Peterborough and Smith Falls. The area is too curvy as is to really be useable, and the isolated location means a grade separated 200km/h line wouldn't be too much additional in cost over a 177km/h line as minimal grade separations are required.

That would inch up construction costs closer to that $6-12 billion number and would allow trains to clear Toronto-Ottawa much quicker.

If you could get Fallowfield-Peterborough mostly into 200km/h territory, you could theoretically clear that stretch in 1:30 or so, giving 1:30 for Peterborough through Toronto and access into Ottawa.

That theory also fits with a timeline that runs to 2030. It would take that extra time to build a new alignment.

I would feel a lot better with that plan ( even though it costs more) than with settling for whatever speed can be wrung out of the existing alignment. Do it right from the beginning.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

With HFR, Dorval is now 1 hr from Ottawa. It just became Ottawa's second airport.

Currently best time is almost 90 minutes from Ottawa to Dorval. I'm hard-pressed to how you increase it much more! You'd need an average of 104 miles/hour, platform to platform.

 

[ssiguy2]

For 6-12 billion, this is pretty damn unambitious. These travel times are still ridiculous considering the money they are spending.

Also, what about London & Windsor?

 

[p_xavier]

Almost certainly from this morning's press conference where it seemed that maybe not everyone was fully aware of the original plan; Lebeaume repeatedly called it 'TGV'. Unfortunently I missed most of it and there doesn't seem to be a recording.

Also interestingly, via seams to be leasing part the Ottawa station to Orleans Express now for regular busses to Montreal. I'll probably try the bus alternative next week as I prefer them to via for MTL-QC due to speed and cost

Orleans Express Will Offer a Service Route Between Quebec and Ontario

/CNW Telbec/ - As of July 8, Keolis Canada's intercity transportation service – Orléans Express – will be enhanced by a daily connection linking Montreal,...

www.newswire.ca

Any means of transport without alcohol is meaningless in my eyes but good for you..

 

[nfitz]

Moving the existing station from St-Foy to Jean-Lesage seems an odd move (or adding a station I suppose). Presumably those in Quebec City wouldn't be using it to get to the airport, as intra-city travel is normally not allowed on VIA. And surely those near Montreal would be heading to Dorval airport Would there be that much travel from people in the Trois-Rivieres area to justify this - and where would they be heading - biggest destinations from Quebec City are Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto ... which from Trois-Rivieres may make more sense on the train!

I'm hoping that image from R-C is correct, as it would mean they are on CP tracks all the way from Dorion to Smith Falls, and make a 4-hour run to Toronto feasible. How wide is the ROW there? Is it enough to add a 3rd and perhaps 4th exclusive VIA track?

Also, what about London & Windsor?

Good question. It seems wrong to include Montreal to Quebec City, but not Toronto to at least London (with some trains carrying on existing tracks to Windsor and Sarnia).

Any means of transport without alcohol is meaningless in my eyes but good for you..

Easily solved.

 

[ShonTron]

The only thing that I find really interesting from the Radio-Canada map is how the new HFR alignment would follow CP from Dorval to De Beaujeu, rather than the existing CN route through Coteau. That would shave a few miles off the route between Ottawa and Montreal, plus potentially save on a major grade separation at the diamond at De Beaujeu.

Somehow, I doubt we'd see yet another VIA route bypassing Ottawa on the Winchester Sub, when VIA is supposed to maintain service on the Kingston Sub as well.

 

[nfitz]

Somehow, I doubt we'd see yet another VIA route bypassing Ottawa on the Winchester Sub, when VIA is supposed to maintain service on the Kingston Sub as well.

I don't see how they can't to be honest, and offer any reasonable Toronto to Montreal service. And even this doesn't seem to do any better than using the CN route.

"Maintain" service ... like they have for Sarnia and Niagara Falls? Good job Kingston is a safe Liberal seat.

 

[rbt]

But if there is a fall election and the government falls, none of this will ever get built.

Maybe. If the bankers also believe VIA subsidy can be removed permanently then that's a pretty strong incentive for small government supporters. It may not be exactly this plan (expect some trimming like electrification) but some variation would likely be attempted.

 

[kEiThZ]

Currently best time is almost 90 minutes from Ottawa to Dorval. I'm hard-pressed to how you increase it much more! You'd need an average of 104 miles/hour, platform to platform.

If HFR is supposedly getting Ottawa-Montreal to between 1:30 and 1:45, that would imply that Ottawa-Dorval is 1-1:15 hrs.

Given the two transfers and 30 mins required, to get from downtown to Ottawa airport, a transfer at Tremblay station and then at Dorval in 1 hr starts to look attractive if the air fare is competitive, which given Ottawa's situation as an Air Canada fortress hub is far too common.

 

[Nouvellecosse]

Regarding the 200km/h speculation, just because there was a passing mention of 200km/h in one announcement doesn't mean this is indicative of significant spending on route re-alignment. It could very well just be one short section where it reaches that speed for 30 seconds or something. Governments, particularly this government, are rather clever with marketing. They want flashy headlines and positive press coverage. The reason for the high cost is probably just because a good portion is in poor condition and the rest of the route doesn't even have tracks. In addition to the cost of electrification, most of the level crossings don't have crossing booms, and such physical barriers will be required for all crossings with frequent fast train traffic. There will probably also need to be grade separations on busier routes as well as additional sidings since the route is mostly single track. Then station facilities will be needed for any of the new stops without suitable facilities. Plus, just to maintain conventional speeds of 160-177km/h there will likely need to be some canting or super elevation due to many of the curves. We'll have to watch for more detail but I don't see any reason to jump to conclusions.

 

[Urban Sky]

There is no way this should take 10 years. $6B with electrification sure. But $12B is a pretty ridiculous estimate.

...assuming that the desired travel times between Montreal and Quebec City can be achieved without building a new tunnel underneath the Mont-Royal tunnel...

Also, what about London & Windsor?

Let me tell you a story about two provinces:

In one province, upon learning that HFR was only planned to reach a measly 50 km into its territory to serve its biggest city, the mayors and chambers of commerce joined forces with their provincial government to lobby the federal government until it extended the scope.

Meanwhile, in the other province, the provincial government had just launched its own HSR proposal and even though there was virtually no overlap between both projects, VIA was attacked in countless newspaper articles (especially in the L.F.P.) for meddling with this scheme - by proposing something far less ambitious on the other side of the big city...

Edit: L.F.P., not L.N.P.

 

[kEiThZ]

...if the desired travel times between Montreal and Quebec City can be achieved without building a new tunnel underneath the Mont-Royal tunnel...

Eeeep. So billion dollar tunnel? If they are actually doing that, I'm happy to see it. But it is expensive. And does explain the $12B upper end estimate.

the provincial government had just launched its own HSR proposal and even though there was virtually no overlap between both projects,

You forgot the best part. They had an election and the new government binned the HSR proposal the previous government came up with, leaving Southwestern Ontario with no HSR or HFR.

especially in the L.N.P.

Do you mean the LFP?

 

[nfitz]

If HFR is supposedly getting Ottawa-Montreal to between 1:30 and 1:45, that would imply that Ottawa-Dorval is 1-1:15 hrs.

The La Presse article said the minimum is 100 minutes not 90 minutes. Current best scheduled time from Dorval to Central is 17 minutes ... hopefully they can knock it to 15 with the new track through Turcot and some switch/track upgrades from St-Henri into Central. That would make Dorval to Ottawa 85 minutes not 60 minutes!

 

[Nouvellecosse]

Even if they did want to twin the tunnel, is there a suitable alignment to the north leading up to Mont-Royal now that REM occupies the route previously used by the Deux Montagnes line? Seems like a bit of a squeeze to fit one or more additional tracks along side the dual REM tracks plus the REM stations such as Canora and Gare Mont-Royal. I'd say it makes more sense to invest in a convenient connection such as the alternate for REM de l’Est that people were fantasizing about over on agoramtl.com. Kick Loblaws out of Parc station and allow the new station and connector to serve both HFR and the St. Jerome line while providing improved transit connectivity to the corridor. That would make more sense than spending that kind of money on a rail tunnel for a train that, while frequent for intercity rail, still probably won't be more than hourly or 1/2 hourly..

 

[Kraylin]

...if the desired travel times between Montreal and Quebec City can be achieved without building a new tunnel underneath the Mont-Royal tunnel...


Let me tell you a story about two provinces:

In one province, upon learning that HFR was only planned to reach a measly 50 km into its territory to serve its biggest city, the mayors and chambers of commerce joined forces with their provincial government to lobby the federal government until it extended the scope.

Meanwhile, in the other province, the provincial government had just launched its own HSR proposal and even though there was virtually no overlap between both projects, VIA was attacked in countless newspaper articles (especially in the L.N.P.) for meddling with this scheme - by proposing something far less ambitious on the other side of the big city...

Government lobbying government while supported by lobbyists. No wonder tax time makes my head spin. Got to love 46% tax rates for this multi level nonsense.