VIA Rail

[nfitz]

Serve Dorval on non-express trains, separate the VIA tracks from the CN tracks by shifting CN slightly south and diving under the St Laurent sub junction. Hopefully there are investments that could be made to allow the train to average a speed higher than 60km/h from Centrale to Dorval but the key is not stopping and improving line speed.

Skip Dorval? I'm sure you've seen how many people board at Dorval - wouldn't skipping it with express trains, make the journey longer for many riders?

I don't recall the speeds through St. Laurent junction being an issue - it's from St-Henri into Central Station where it crawls.

They prioritized electrification over faster service.

I didn't notice anything about electrification - nor do I think there's anywhere near that much money budged.

Is there something to indicate that this won't be a diesel service, at least for the first decade or so?

This is pretty low ambition. Their promised reductions translate to about 10 hrs between Toronto and Quebec City

Hang on ... even with the relatively slow schedules currently in place, it's only about 8 hours 45 minutes (such as using 33/63). Probably closer to 7.5 hours at some point in the past.

Edit ... looking the winter 1997 schedule, using trains 25/67 it was 7 hours 29 minutes from Quebec City to Toronto, with a 45-minute layover in Montreal.

 

[roger1818]

Agreed on all points, but the conclusion I've ended up with is that Metrolinx should probably just take the full North Mainline while VIA rebrands the southern corridor as an express service.

In a perfect world, yes. However, given that the Dundas Sub is CN's mainline, I don't know how feasible it is for VIA to have dedicated tracks or any sort of HFR along it.

 

[kEiThZ]

Skip Dorval? I'm sure you've seen how many people board at Dorval - wouldn't skipping it with express trains, make the journey longer for many riders?

Yep. Skipping Dorval is a bonkers suggestion. With HFR, Dorval is now 1 hr from Ottawa. It just became Ottawa's second airport.

 

[crs1026]

Agreed on all points, but the conclusion I've ended up with is that Metrolinx should probably just take the full North Mainline while VIA rebrands the southern corridor as an express service.

We are moving VIA off the Kingston line because express service is incompatible with freight, but you suggest the same issues don’t apply west of Toronto ?

The CN line thru Brantford is best left as CN’s main line. The north route can match the timing and handle HFR to Windsor if the right investment is made.

- Paul

 

[p_xavier]

So 10 years to build (if on time), and a budget of 6-12G$ for this. CN and CP refuses electrification. Why the government don't force them for the 10% of the routes that they own.

 

[Urban Sky]

We are moving VIA off the Kingston line because express service is incompatible with freight, but you suggest the same issues don’t apply west of Toronto ?

The CN line thru Brantford is best left as CN’s main line. The north route can match the timing and handle HFR to Windsor if the right investment is made.

- Paul

The Southern Route has the freight trains, the Northern Route has the population centers (Brampton-Guelph-Kitchener). Oakville and Hamilton will be better served by a corridor towards Buffalo...

 

[crs1026]

So 10 years to build (if on time), and a budget of 6-12G$ for this. CN and CP refuses electrification. Why the government don't force them for the 10% of the routes that they own.

Because installing overhead at taxpayers’ expense using engineering and technology chosen by VIA before CN/CP have established their own standard is not prudent. Let the railways work out their issues with electrification, and put up their own wires to their own satisfaction. (at their own expense, but maybe with incentives for territory VIA uses). If necessary, modify VIA’s locomotives for compatibility with the freight standard.

I do think the railways will electrify eventually. In the meanwhile, let the sleeping dog lie….

- Paul

 

[kEiThZ]

So 10 years to build (if on time), and a budget of 6-12G$ for this.

Source?

There is no way this should take 10 years. $6B with electrification sure. But $12B is a pretty ridiculous estimate.

 

[EnviroTO]

"The government is taking the first steps in preparing for a procurement process"... What is the commitment? They don't even commit to when the RFP for something tangible will occur, or set goals on when phase 1 would be expected to come online. "The request for proposal for the procurement process is expected to launch in fall 2021". Wait... is this an RFP for a corridor, or an RFP for a procurement process which would need to start in order to create RFPs for tangible things?

"Federal projections estimate the amount of trips taken by rail in the Toronto to Quebec City corridor would more than triple, from 4.8 million in 2019 to a projected 17 million by 2059." Should I be concerned that they consider 2059 a key date??

 

[p_xavier]

Source?

There is no way this should take 10 years. $6B with electrification sure. But $12B is a pretty ridiculous estimate.

Jusqu’à 12 milliards pour un train « moderne » entre Québec et Toronto

Le gouvernement du Canada doit investir à terme entre 6 et 12 milliards de dollars pour relier Québec, Montréal et Toronto par un service de train « moderne », où les wagons de passagers n’auront plus à céder le passage à ceux de marchandises.

www.lapresse.ca

It also says there will be a bypass for Ottawa for MTL-TO trains. (I never understood why anglo media never use the International System of Units for money)

 

[EnviroTO]

Jusqu’à 12 milliards pour un train « moderne » entre Québec et Toronto

Le gouvernement du Canada doit investir à terme entre 6 et 12 milliards de dollars pour relier Québec, Montréal et Toronto par un service de train « moderne », où les wagons de passagers n’auront plus à céder le passage à ceux de marchandises.

www.lapresse.ca

It also says there will be a bypass for Ottawa for MTL-TO trains. (I never understood why anglo media never use the International System of Units for money)

Interesting... in that report it says the project will be complete in 2030. That is not too bad for a project only 26 years in the making... assuming the project isn't the procurement process

 

[cplchanb]

Interesting... in that report it says the project will be complete in 2030. That is not too bad for a project only 26 years in the making... assuming the project isn't the procurement process

wow.... what an unsurprisingly unambitious target to set. In 8 years we'll be old then and probably a 1/3 of the current liberals would be retired or dead of old age. Apart from the new stations the next item that will take the longest to procure would probably be the trains. Going with the corridor model itll probably take them 5 years to get the fleet. Looks like theyre adding a couple years of safety.

 

[kEiThZ]

Jusqu’à 12 milliards pour un train « moderne » entre Québec et Toronto

Le gouvernement du Canada doit investir à terme entre 6 et 12 milliards de dollars pour relier Québec, Montréal et Toronto par un service de train « moderne », où les wagons de passagers n’auront plus à céder le passage à ceux de marchandises.

www.lapresse.ca

It also says there will be a bypass for Ottawa for MTL-TO trains. (I never understood why anglo media never use the International System of Units for money)

Strange article. They are saying that Ottawa will be on a branch line and that it will be possible to go from Toronto to Montreal in 4 hrs. That is not at all in line with what we know of HFR today. Not sure if something got lost in translation (literally and figuratively there). And while it does mention that one of the ministers gave an estimate of $6-12B (a ridiculously broad range), it's not clear where they got that 10 yr timeframe estimate from. Shouldn't take a decade to upgrade and existing rail corridor and build 5 stations.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1412481424637186056

 

[TerryJohnson]

This map, from the Radio-Canada article, would be a radical departure from the previously published maps. I wonder how much of this is real.