Urban Sky
Senior Member
Why should VIA operate bus service in competition to provincial or private operators like Ontario Northland or Maritime Express?
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Looking at this post from another thread, the 1988 VIA cuts to the Peterborough service look even more unnecessary. They'd have saved more cutting the Montreal to Quebec City service. The loss of the Halifax to Sydney and Toronto to North Bay service also looks unnecessary. Perhaps time to roll back these cuts, perhaps with some provincial support.
littlewill1166
Active Member
To act as a feeder service, and to allow for the reallocation of rolling stock from underperforming trains 85/88 to trains that are always full 73/78.
dowlingm
Senior Member
My understanding of Thruway's model is that at least some routes are run by such operators and not by Amtrak, like a codeshare; it would be trivial to direct VIA not to sell tickets on reservia under such arrangements other than for services with a train leg.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
The solution for trains 85 and 88 is not to replace them by a bus service, but to schedule them at a less unattractive time slot...
Then how do you want to solve the inherent conflict between the needs of intermodal passengers who want the connecting bus hold until whatever time the train arrives at the interchange station (even if that causes a delay by 4 or even 12 hours) against the needs of local (i.e. the bus operator’s own) passengers, who want to arrive on time? Amtrak’s “codeshare” agreements only work because it enjoys the operational priority VIA so sorely lacks...
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roger1818
Senior Member
Looking at this post from another thread, the 1988 VIA cuts to the Peterborough service look even more unnecessary. They'd have saved more cutting the Montreal to Quebec City service. The loss of the Halifax to Sydney and Toronto to North Bay service also looks unnecessary. Perhaps time to roll back these cuts, perhaps with some provincial support.
HFR would bring back service to Peterborough. Having said that, it really depends on which numbers you consider important. While the Subsidy per Passenger for Montreal-Quebec is significantly higher (a bad thing), the Ridership, Cost Recovery and Occupancy Rate are also higher (good things).
Ridership | Subsidy per passenger | Cost recovery | Occupancy Rate | |
| Montreal-Quebec | 287,111 | $73.80 | 28.4% | 39% |
| Toronto-Havelock | 59,067 | $32.10 | 24.5% | 32% |
What the table doesn't tell you is that it is 272 km between Montreal-Quebec and 162km between Toronto and Havelock, so the Subsidies per Passenger km are $0.27 and $0.20 respectively. Still higher for Montreal-Quebec, but more reasonable and it does have better Ridership, Cost recovery and Occupancy Rate figures.
littlewill1166
Active Member
It's already been replaced by a bus, just not by a VIA bus. I don't see either train coming back for a very long time, to be honest. Also, I'm not sure how the two trains could be timed better given that 85 is timed to connect with 73, and 88 is timed to connect with 78.
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robmausser
Senior Member
Not saying they should. Just if they wanted to.
But you have to make everything into an argument so I understand why you're getting confrontational, oh omnipotent lord and master of Via Rail.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I’m not trying to turn everything into an argument, I’m just trying to understand what the problem you are trying to solve actually is, while playing the devil’s advocate - with the devil of course being the legions of bean counters in Ottawa/Gatineau, as the ultimate disablers of any passenger rail improvement efforts...
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nfitz
Superstar
I suppose it would, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Every plan VIA has cooked up since the early 1980s reopening of Gare du Palais has died. Most recently was the Liberal government killing VIA Fast.
Given Metrolinx's new plan that after consultation with VIA, blocks service on the line to Peterborough, it's pretty clear that the HFR alignment they proposed a couple of years ago isn't happening anytime soon. Has the current federal Transport Minister even mentioned the project? The previous one did, but I haven't heard anything from the current one. I also note that it wasn't namechecked in the mandate letter for the current minister.
Unless it's namechecked in the upcoming federal budget, I think we can give up on it. Personally, I'd prefer to see a return to VIA Fast, which can be done far more incrementally.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The cheaper the fare the more sketch the passenger. I don’t think I would ever take a Greyhound anywhere.
Greyhound: Apart from that, how was your experience today?
Probably listening to Talking Heads. BOOO!:( Too soon...
In the 1990s and early 2000s when I used to take trains in Eastern Europe I would almost always pay for first class. It’s not much more money, and I felt safer. Here in Canada the bus vs. train option is a sufficient divide.
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nfitz
Superstar
True. I guess we'll see in the budget. I suspect that will be the last chance for this until the next federal election. Is there a date set for that?
Urban Sky
Senior Member
You are assuming that all passengers travel “end-to-end”, which would only be a valid assumption for services without any intermediary stations. Therefore, you unfortunately can’t calculate the “passenger-per-km” figure for any VIA service with the 1988 data I provided, as useful as that metric would be for any comparisons with present-day VIA...
2transpo
New Member
There isn't a date set for an election, but I would legitimately be surprised if one doesn't happen this year.
I personally don't see any way HFR slides through before the next election. Even if it does, the political instability caused by the election will more than likely see it cancelled. If the conservatives form the next government, which is a likely possibility, it is 120% dead.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
It doesn't have to compete. They can contact out the bus service to who ever wants to bid for it. The point is that train service and bus service need to work together to attract riders. Especially after the pandemic.