VIA Rail

[trebello]

I think we will ever only see decent improvements on it if VIA buys it for some kind of "HFR West" proposal.

What criteria does VIA use to decide when to buy an underused line (or a line that may be abandoned). Obviously VIA had no interest in doing this on Vancouver Island or Gaspé (where they were running money-losing services on track owned by other railways that needed substantial investment), but I assume at some point VIA bought track through Ottawa and to Windsor Station. If CN was to abandon the connection through St. Marys, would it have fate similar to passenger service on Vancouver Island, or would VIA be more interested in stepping in a buying it?

 

[Urban Sky]

The ideal/plan for an additional roundtrip to and from Stratford is likely dead, as is the plan for the use of additional RDCs.

I wish I could be any more specific, but the plans to improve service in Southwestern Ontario are far from dead and I am confident that most (if not: all) stations will see improved service (whether through GO or VIA) within the next decade.

What criteria does VIA use to decide when to buy an underused line (or a line that may be abandoned). Obviously VIA had no interest in doing this on Vancouver Island or Gaspé (where they were running money-losing services on track owned by other railways that needed substantial investment), but I assume at some point VIA bought track through Ottawa and to Windsor Station. If CN was to abandon the connection through St. Marys, would it have fate similar to passenger service on Vancouver Island, or would VIA be more interested in stepping in a buying it?

First, you can only buy what is for sale.
Second, capital funding decisions (like the acquisition of assets) are made in Ottawa, not Montreal.

PS: I suspect think I’m the only one here to whom Windsor’s VIA station in Walkerville is not the first thing which comes into his mind when someone writes “Windsor Station”:

Windsor Station (Montreal) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[trebello]

Second, capital funding decisions (like the acquisition of assets) are made in Ottawa, not Montreal.

Thanks, that's what I was curious about. So what that means is if there is track that has deteriorated to the point where it's difficult for VIA to run economical service, it in effectively becomes a political decision (i.e. Ottawa as to express a willingness to approach the line owner about a sale / provide capital for to purchase the line). Presumably a key passenger rail link like the one through St. Marys would generate enough political pressure for VIA or Metrolinx to buy it, if it actually came to that. Nice to hear that you think it's likely it will see improved service in the future.

Windsor’s VIA station in Walkerville

Is there a name that VIA's station in Windsor is commonly referred to avoid confusion? That does seem confusing (and would have especially been when the Windsor station in Montreal was open)

 

[roger1818]

Thanks, that's what I was curious about. So what that means is if there is track that has deteriorated to the point where it's difficult for VIA to run economical service, it in effectively becomes a political decision (i.e. Ottawa as to express a willingness to approach the line owner about a sale / provide capital for to purchase the line). Presumably a key passenger rail link like the one through St. Marys would generate enough political pressure for VIA or Metrolinx to buy it, if it actually came to that. Nice to hear that you think it's likely it will see improved service in the future.

It doesn't really go that way. It is more that the railway puts that they plan to abandon the track in their 3 year plan. VIA then says to the government, if this track is abandoned, we can no longer provide service to xyz. The government then either gives VIA the money to buy the ROW (typically at a bargain basement price since the railway doesn't want it) or lets them abandon the service.

Is there a name that VIA's station in Windsor is commonly referred to avoid confusion? That does seem confusing (and would have especially been when the Windsor station in Montreal was open)

It is called Windsor Train Station on VIA's website.

 

[robmausser]

What criteria does VIA use to decide when to buy an underused line (or a line that may be abandoned). Obviously VIA had no interest in doing this on Vancouver Island or Gaspé (where they were running money-losing services on track owned by other railways that needed substantial investment), but I assume at some point VIA bought track through Ottawa and to Windsor Station. If CN was to abandon the connection through St. Marys, would it have fate similar to passenger service on Vancouver Island, or would VIA be more interested in stepping in a buying it?

The corridor is the only part of the entire VIA network that actually recoups a significant percentage of operating costs through fares.

The justification is that Kitchener and London are large enough cities to justify frequent dedicated rail service, and HSR in the future.

 

[crs1026]

It doesn't really go that way. It is more that the railway puts that they plan to abandon the track in their 3 year plan. VIA then says to the government, if this track is abandoned, we can no longer provide service to xyz. The government then either gives VIA the money to buy the ROW (typically at a bargain basement price since the railway doesn't want it) or lets them abandon the service.

And in the case of the Stratford line, it is unlikely that CN will serve notice to abandon any time soon. They have been investing in the line.

The problem is that the level of investment is only sufficient to continue safe, but slow, freight service. So it falls on VIA to propose, in their Business Plan, that they fund further investment to bring the line to a higher standard. Or for VIA and ML to discuss jointly and seek funding from their respective principals to run a joint service.

One hears that the joint service thing is far from dead, but not necessarily on the front burner either.

- Paul

 

[robmausser]

And in the case of the Stratford line, it is unlikely that CN will serve notice to abandon any time soon. They have been investing in the line.

The problem is that the level of investment is only sufficient to continue safe, but slow, freight service. So it falls on VIA to propose, in their Business Plan, that they fund further investment to bring the line to a higher standard. Or for VIA and ML to discuss jointly and seek funding from their respective principals to run a joint service.

One hears that the joint service thing is far from dead, but not necessarily on the front burner either.

- Paul

Im really miffed that VIA didnt buy the line when GEXR put it up for sale a couple years ago.

 

[nfitz]

Im really miffed that VIA didnt buy the line when GEXR put it up for sale a couple years ago.

At that point, the plan was for Ontario to run along that corridor - presumably displacing VIA.

But why didn't Ontario buy it west of Kitchener when they bought the other piece?

 

[crs1026]

Im really miffed that VIA didnt buy the line when GEXR put it up for sale a couple years ago.

GEXR didn't own the London-Stratford-Kitchener line. CN did. GEXR just leased it. The lease was terminated.

GEXR only owns the branches west of Stratford, which they still operate.

Was the portion west of Kitchener ever on the market? I don't know. ML only bought east of Kitchener.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

^I'm informed that VIA's 2016, 2017, and 2018 Corporate Plans all contained a statement to the effect that VIA was looking at the purchase of the London-Kitchener section. The 2019 and 2020 versions did not make that statement.
Whether VIA decided otherwise, or there was no money to be had.... or whether CN was ever interested, we don't know.

- Paul

 

[TFC]

GO is working on improving the signalling and adding sidings on their section - Kitchener to Georgetown.

CN is not interested in doing any improvements to their section of the line - it's more than adequate for their current and future needs. Any improvements would have to be paid for by VIA or the Province.

The ideal/plan for an additional roundtrip to and from Stratford is likely dead, as is the plan for the use of additional RDCs.

Dan

I recall when CN assumed operations on the north mainline, GEXR was responsible for bringing the line back up to the condition that it was in when they assumed operation. I think there was also discussion on this forum a while ago around GEXR providing CN with monetary compensation for CN to carry out upgrades. I wasn't sure whether these upgrades (assuming they've already taken place), have resulted in a tangible improvement to VIA's operations, particularly west of Kitchener.

 

[roger1818]

^I'm informed that VIA's 2016, 2017, and 2018 Corporate Plans all contained a statement to the effect that VIA was looking at the purchase of the London-Kitchener section. The 2019 and 2020 versions did not make that statement.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that, but sure enough:

2016 Corporate Plan pg. 23:

2017 Corporate Plan pg. 13:

2018 Corporate Plan pg. 23:

Whether VIA decided otherwise, or there was no money to be had.... or whether CN was ever interested, we don't know.

If I had to guess, the government didn't approve the funding. The fact that VIA only ran 2 trains a day each way along that corridor (giving preference to the more direct, southern route) made it harder to justify.

 

[crs1026]

If I had to guess, the government didn't approve the funding. The fact that VIA only ran 2 trains a day each way along that corridor (giving preference to the more direct, southern route) made it harder to justify.

It would have been a considerable amount to ask for, considering that VIA would both have to buy the line and then fix it up. And recognizing that CN had good business on the line, so it wouldn't be a fire-sale purchase of something that would otherwise attract scrap value.

And, it would have been directionally and politically odd to simply go ahead and buy that line, and fix it up, while having such huge angst over doing exactly that with the larger HFR package. (Although, IMHO, fixing up this short segment and growing the business would likely offer a simple and constructive proof that the larger HFR investment was sound).

Maybe it will happen eventually.

- Paul

 

[ManyQuestions]

Has anybody heard anything about when the engineering studies for the HFR project are supposed to be presented? I recall hearing that the original plan was to have them completed in time to full funding to be considered in the 2021 federal budget. I also remember talking to both Arup and AECOM about the studies a year ago at my university job fair and being told that they were not hiring summer students for the project because it was already progressing well. This was before the coronavirus started to really spread around Canada.

Sorry if this was asked several times already, I haven't been following this forum very closely over the past month.

 

[Allandale25]

Has anybody heard anything about when the engineering studies for the HFR project are supposed to be presented? I recall hearing that the original plan was to have them completed in time to full funding to be considered in the 2021 federal budget. I also remember talking to both Arup and AECOM about the studies a year ago at my university job fair and being told that they were not hiring summer students for the project because it was already progressing well. This was before the coronavirus started to really spread around Canada.

Sorry if this was asked several times already, I haven't been following this forum very closely over the past month.

This is the latest public update I heard and posted. I haven't seen anything else including in the media.

Post in thread 'VIA Rail' https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/via-rail.21060/post-1621928