VIA Rail

[smallspy]

They seem to have drifted from this standard, but from my observations, it used to be that in the corridor 2 digit trains were for weekday (and weekend if it used the same schedule) trains and were numbered as follows, with even train numbers for eastbound and odd numbers for westbound:

2x - Quebec-Montreal​

3x - Montreal-Ottawa​

4x - Ottawa-Toronto​

5x&6x - Montreal-Toronto​

7x - Toronto-Windsor​

8x - Toronto-London/Sarnia​

If a train only ran on weekends, it would be 3 digits with the same format but prefixed by a 6 (Saturday is day 6 on VIA schedules).

The problem was, that meant there was a limit of 5 trains a day each way for all routes (except Montreal-Toronto which could have 10), so lately they have been also using the 6 prefix to allow more than 5 trains a day. They also seem to have moved the 5x numbers to Ottawa-Toronto. There also seem to be other exceptions.

It will be interesting to see what VIA does with train numbers after HFR.

You also forgot about the Niagara Falls trains - they were/are 9X.

There have also been variations on this numbering scheme - when they started operating the services through Ottawa, those through-scheduled train were given numbers in the 5X, while the ones that weren't used 3X, 4X and 6X on those respective corridors. While there are (were?) very few through-routed trains before the lockdown, many of the trains running on that schedule still carried 5X numbers.

There have also been midweek trains given a 6-prefix as they've run out of 2-digit numbers on some of the routes.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

There have also been midweek trains given a 6-prefix as they've run out of 2-digit numbers on some of the routes.

Dan

Can’t wait to see HFR arrive and force a three-digit numbering scheme.

Running out of train numbers is a problem I can’t wait for VIA to have.

- Paul

 

[roger1818]

Can’t wait to see HFR arrive and force a three-digit numbering scheme.

Running out of train numbers is a problem I can’t wait for VIA to have.

Since VIA predominantly uses CN's track (with some exceptions), does CN dictate which numbers VIA can use, or can VIA use any number they want? It seems that, with the exception of the Sudbury-White River train (which uses CP track exclusively), VIA only uses numbers less than 100 and in the 600's.

 

[crs1026]

Since VIA predominantly uses CN's track (with some exceptions), does CN dictate which numbers VIA can use, or can VIA use any number they want? It seems that, with the exception of the Sudbury-White River train (which uses CP track exclusively), VIA only uses numbers less than 100 and in the 600's.

I don't know officially, but it has to be more than pure coincidence that CN avoids numbers in the 600 series.

Having said that, CN and CP use exactly the same train numbering series in coproduction zones - virtually total overlap. Operationally, the locomotive number is the unique identifier by the rulebook (although, there too, there is overlap between CP and CN numbers, and many foreign road locomotives on CN also.)

Behind the scenes, CN's numbering is actually more verbose. VIA 43 shows in CN's computer as something like P04331xx, with xx being the day of the month, and 31 being the region. Freights have other initials such as Z, Q, M, L, and U, so there are plenty of ways to differentiate. CN may use the same train number in different areas - the freight train numbers we are used to in Southern Ontario are also used, for example, on trains on the Chicago-New Orleans line, without any actual connectivity.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

That said, I can imagine that especially the new schedule fails to accommodate certain types of passenger trip purposes, as every service reduction involves painful trade-offs for me and my colleagues in the scheduling department and which will inevitably affect certain trip types much more than others. Just out of interest, on which trains would you depend for your pre-pandemic commuting? (Feel free to respond by PM if you don’t want to discuss this here)

With the first train of the day from Ottawa to Montreal arriving after 6 pm at night, with the return trip leaving Montreal at noon - that's hard to actually believe, that it's being treated as an essential service. That sounds much more fitted for non-essential excursions, than any necessary daytime activity.

At the same time, perhaps the border should be closed, with the English variant spreading widely in Ontario. But with the stay at home order being lifted next week - the timing does seem backwards.

 

[Bordercollie]

With the first train of the day from Ottawa to Montreal arriving after 6 pm at night, with the return trip leaving Montreal at noon - that's hard to actually believe, that it's being treated as an essential service. That sounds much more fitted for non-essential excursions, than any necessary daytime activity.

At the same time, perhaps the border should be closed, with the English variant spreading widely in Ontario. But with the stay at home order being lifted next week - the timing does seem backwards.

How do you know that the stay at home order will be lifted and not extended?

 

[nfitz]

How do you know that the stay at home order will be lifted and not extended?

I don't ... but cases are much lower and dropping now, so it's possible.

Personally I hope it's continued - it seems as effective (if not more so) as the curfew in Quebec, but with less unnecessary restrictions.

 

[roger1818]

With the first train of the day from Ottawa to Montreal arriving after 6 pm at night, with the return trip leaving Montreal at noon - that's hard to actually believe, that it's being treated as an essential service. That sounds much more fitted for non-essential excursions, than any necessary daytime activity.

At the same time, perhaps the border should be closed, with the English variant spreading widely in Ontario. But with the stay at home order being lifted next week - the timing does seem backwards.

The problem is that the Ottawa-Montreal trains are combined with the Quebec-Montreal trains and they are optimized for the later route. I am guessing that these two routes are combined because of minimum shift length requirements. It is odd that there are 3 trains a day, each way between Toronto and London, but only 1 train a day, each way between Ottawa and Montreal though.

 

[nfitz]

If minimum shift lengths are an issue, they are worrying more about money than essential services, which would be secondary.

Fair enough, but they should be up front about it.

 

[Urban Sky]

I don't ... but cases are much lower and dropping now, so it's possible.

Personally I hope it's continued - it seems as effective as the curfew in Quebec, but less totalitarian.

I’m not sure what makes our provincial government the repeated target of your unnecessarily harshly-worded and undifferentiated criticism, but my understanding was that the “Stay-at-Home order” requires “all Ontario residents [to] stay at home except for essential reasons”, which to me sounds closer to the rules which apply here in Quebec during the curfew hours (i.e. between 8pm and 5am) than outside of them (where you can still do more or less whatever you want outside, as long as you refrain from gathering with people or traveling outside your region)...

 

[roger1818]

I’m not sure what makes our provincial government the repeated target of your hatred, but my understanding was that the “Stay-at-Home order” requires “all Ontario residents [to] stay at home except for essential reasons”, which to me sounds closer to the rules which apply here in Quebec during the curfew hours (i.e. between 8pm and 5am) than outside of them (where you can still do more or less whatever you want outside, as long as you refrain from gathering with people or traveling outside your region)...

I see significant differences though. This article says in Quebec "Grocery stores and depanneurs must close at 7:30 p.m. every day to allow shoppers time to get home." Also this article says, a Sherbrooke couple were each given $1,500 fines by police for walking outside after curfew near their home (humorously, she claimed she was "walking her dog" as he had a collar and leash).

In Ontario, the hours of grocery stores haven't changed with lockdown and you are allowed to exercise outside anytime. Totalitarian comment aside, it just makes more sense to allow people to shop for groceries and exercise over a wider time period to reduce crowding, since close contact is what we are trying to reduce.

 

[Urban Sky]

I see significant differences though. This article says in Quebec "Grocery stores and depanneurs must close at 7:30 p.m. every day to allow shoppers time to get home." Also this article says, a Sherbrooke couple were each given $1,500 fines by police for walking outside after curfew near their home (humorously, she claimed she was "walking her dog" as he had a collar and leash).

In Ontario, the hours of grocery stores haven't changed with lockdown and you are allowed to exercise outside anytime. Totalitarian comment aside, it just makes more sense to allow people to shop for groceries and exercise over a wider time period to reduce crowding, since close contact is what we are trying to reduce.

My objection was exclusively against the word “totalitarian”, which sounds like military patrolling the streets in tanks and raiding houses to detect and dissolve forbidden gatherings, all while in reality, life moves on probably not that much differently from what you experience in Ontario.

Now that the offensive word has been changed to “unnecessarily restrictive”, I don’t see any reason to burden ourselves with a discussion about how the CoVid measures compare in our respective home provinces, as I believe that all governments in this country are genuinely trying to carefully find the fragile balance to curb the pandemic without undermining the public acceptance which is necessary to have these measures succeed. That said, Quebec’s ban of opening shops on Sundays back in April (to give retail workers “a brief reprieve from the constant work”, as if regulating opening hours were the only way to influence work conditions!) was an extraordinarily counter-productive (and entirely superfluous) measure while simultaneously trying to discourage crowding in shops...

 

[nfitz]

.. life moves on probably not that much differently from what you experience in Ontario.

Probably unchanged for many, especially those with privilege. Quite different I suspect for some. No one has been arrested for taking a walk here at night - which is good, as it's the only time I can get my teenager walking. And of course the homeless were exempt from the order from day one - as one would expect.

And lots of late night trips to the corner store. Quite frankly, I prefer to pop out later when things are emptier. Less people in the store the safer. And if I have to drive over to the office and grab something, it's much easier and safer in the evening.

And of course, schools remain on-line here, with the requirement to stay at home 24/7.

But we digress from the subject of VIA's lack of essential service between Ottawa and Montreal. It's really odd that GO is providing better service on remote (and in some cases longer) routes.

 

[Bordercollie]

Probably unchanged for many, especially those with privilege. Quite different I suspect for some. No one has been arrested for taking a walk here at night - which is good, as it's the only time I can get my teenager walking. And of course the homeless were exempt from the order from day one - as one would expect.

And lots of late night trips to the corner store. Quite frankly, I prefer to pop out later when things are emptier. Less people in the store the safer. And if I have to drive over to the office and grab something, it's much easier and safer in the evening.

And of course, schools remain on-line here, with the requirement to stay at home 24/7.

But we digress from the subject of VIA's lack of essential service between Ottawa and Montreal. It's really odd that GO is providing better service on remote (and in some cases longer) routes.

I dont think you are taking into consideration that GO Transit tends to serve a specific region and mostly commuters. Ottawa and Montreal are different regions (Provinces), so the whole point it to prevent people from travelling between regions unless necessary. So think of it this way, people need the GO train to travel to work and back home usually in the same day.

What mandatory reason would you have to move between regions? Possibly for work (essential worker)? Possibly to meet a family member who is ill? There aren't as many reasons. Even when we where in the grey zone the train was only 25% occupied, and that was before the stay at home order. So I dont think 10% occupancy justifies running every train, but you can still get to your destination and back, it might not be on the same day or as convenient as before but you still can.

If that doesnt work for you, take the bus (Megabus is still running).

 

[roger1818]

But we digress from the subject of VIA's lack of essential service between Ottawa and Montreal. It's really odd that GO is providing better service on remote (and in some cases longer) routes.

Agreed. To bring things back full circle, I find it odd that VIA is cancelling train 24 but keeping train 28 considering the latter arrives in Quebec well after curfew. If VIA must only have 1 train a day and they must have it go from Ottawa to Quebec, then I would suggest that having a train that leaves Ottawa around 8:00, arriving in Quebec by about 2:30. For the reverse trip it could leave around 4:00 and get into Ottawa around 10:00 (the reverse of trains (the reverse of trains 35 and 28). Not perfect, but no curfews will be broken.