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VIA Rail

So the bids are due by October 5th. The says that the contract lasts one year. I wonder when we'll publicly see stuff related to the consultation (website/social media/meetings). I assume because of covid-19, all public meetings will be virtual?

I would hope so. It would sure save VIA a lot of unnecessary travel expenses and per diems and help speed up the process. In the contract I would hope that vast majority of these consultation activities be done virtually via Skype, MS Teams, or Google Meet. We have so many virtual engagement tools these days there shouldn't be any excuse not to use them.
 
I am still digesting the curve data that @Urban Sky provided, and trying to assemble and end to end speed model for Toronto-Ottawa. While I don't have a final end to end calculations, I thought I would test my assumptions before I sink any further into Excell. There are some interesting high level realities that have struck me without a precise assessment of the actual track plan.

The starting point is the assumption that VIA's Siemens equipment will be the benchmark equipment for this run.

My first key assumption is that its performance envelope will prove to be similar to the "InterCity" equipment cited in @Urban Sky's thesis. The important point is the acceleration/deceleration parameter - 0.37m/sec^2. I am using that statistic for all my calculations of acceleration and deceleration on the line. That number may not be reality, but it's a sensible figure to use, and it aligns to @Urban Sky's work.

Second, I am assuming that deceleration and acceleration rates should be treated as the same.... again, that may not be the case, but it's a conservative assumption for modelling.

Finally, I am assuming that the superelevation that VIA can achieve on curves is, as noted in above posts, 8 inches total - three unbalanced and five balanced. While there is freight traffic west of Havelock, let's assume its volume is not so great to force lower superelevation. Using this FRA chart, the good news is, I can assume that a 3 degree curve can be negotiated at 60 mph. (I am doing all my work in miles rather than kilometers, so as to align to railway mileposts....it just keeps the source data readable). Since 3 degree curves are the most problemmatic limiting curve, 60 mph becomes the "worst case" for speed, other than in a few sections where either curvature is extraordinary or speed may be restricted for other reasons eg in urban areas.

The interesting thing for this track scenario is - we have numerous 3 degree curves where speed will have to be 60 mph, separated by shortish sections of tangent. In theory, one ought to model trains as running at the 3 degree maximum (60 mph) through the curves, then accelerating when possible, and slowing down for the next curve. Conclusion #1: The sheer number of these curves forces one to look at the line as a "60 mph line with the opportunity to go faster in places" rather than a "110 mph line with some slow sections". That's not all bad news, considering that highway speeds are comparable, and the 60 mph prevailing speed is a lot better than I had feared (I had figured most curves would be in the 50 mph range). So end to end times may prove to be fairly competitive to bus or car. (EDIT: This is most true east of Tweed; west of there there are certainly some credible 110 mph capable segments)

Here's the rub: Using the 0.37m/sec^2 spec, converted to mph of course, it takes a longer stretch of tangent to apply this principle than the actual track allows. I produced a table showing the distance needed for a train to accelerate from one speed to another speed.
Screen Shot 2020-09-24 at 6.16.21 PM.png


For the most favourable scenario - ie a train having slowed to 60 mph, then sprinting back up to 110 mph, it will take 1.42 miles to get back to 110 mph. If another slow section is approaching, it will take a further 1.42 miles to slow from 110 mph back down to 60 mph. Conclusion #2: Because the tangent sections between curves are rarely a minimum of 2.84 miles long, in many places the usable speed of tangent track will frequently not be 110 mph.

The practical problem this creates is that, in the absence of a sophisticated autopilot, a train run by human hand will have difficulty handling all the changes in speed to extract the optimum speed-up/slow-down cycles required. Further, the number of full throttle-followed-by-heavy-braking cycles are not condusive to equipment SOGR or fuel efficiency. The likely solution will be to impose "zone" speeds which limit speed over the short tangent stretches to something close to or equal to the slow points of the curves.

How much does this affect the speed envelope? Here's a hypothetical example. Consider a three mile tangent section between two 60 mph curve sections. One would like the train to accelerate in between, but here's how that looks:

Screen Shot 2020-09-24 at 6.17.10 PM.png


Now consider the alternative - just declare the whole length of track, ie the two curves, and the tangent connecting them, as one "zone" limited to 60 mph. The "No Accel" scenario shows the time required, compared to the speed-up-then-brake scenario. The "zone" scenario adds an extra minute to the timing over the "go like stink" scenario. Again, the sheer number of these short tangent sections suggests that a great deal of tangent track will not be usable at the vision of 110 mph. That will add minutes to the timing.

One reads many anecdotal accounts of how fast trains ran in the steam era, where locomotives didn't necessarily have a speedomenter, and speed enforcement was minimal. Old-school engineers did often work from the "go like stink" premise. However, I doubt that it would pass either today's regulatory regime, or a value engineering analysis.

I thought I would put this out there before I try to guesstimate where "zone" performance will be reality. It's a good news, bad news picture. While I haven't concluded that the line is a dud, I would discourage those who imagine it as a 110 mph racetrack.

Please, critique the above to shreds..... I'm still working on the granular picture, better now before I have to rework stuff.

- Paul
 
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I am still digesting the curve data that @Urban Sky provided, and trying to assemble and end to end speed model for Toronto-Ottawa. While I don't have a final end to end calculations, I thought I would test my assumptions before I sink any further into Excell. There are some interesting high level realities that have struck me without a precise assessment of the actual track plan.

The starting point is the assumption that VIA's Siemens equipment will be the benchmark equipment for this run.

My first key assumption is that its performance envelope will prove to be similar to the "InterCity" equipment cited in @Urban Sky's thesis. The important point is the acceleration/deceleration parameter - 0.37m/sec^2. I am using that statistic for all my calculations of acceleration and deceleration on the line. That number may not be reality, but it's a sensible figure to use, and it aligns to @Urban Sky's work.

Second, I am assuming that deceleration and acceleration rates should be treated as the same.... again, that may not be the case, but it's a conservative assumption for modelling.

Finally, I am assuming that the superelevation that VIA can achieve on curves is, as noted in above posts, 8 inches total - three unbalanced and five balanced. While there is freight traffic west of Havelock, let's assume its volume is not so great to force lower superelevation. Using this FRA chart, the good news is, I can assume that a 3 degree curve can be negotiated at 60 mph. (I am doing all my work in miles rather than kilometers, so as to align to railway mileposts....it just keeps the source data readable). Since 3 degree curves are the most problemmatic limiting curve, 60 mph becomes the "worst case" for speed, other than in a few sections where either curvature is extraordinary or speed may be restricted for other reasons eg in urban areas.

The interesting thing for this track scenario is - we have numerous 3 degree curves where speed will have to be 60 mph, separated by shortish sections of tangent. In theory, one ought to model trains as running at the 3 degree maximum (60 mph) through the curves, then accelerating when possible, and slowing down for the next curve. Conclusion #1: The sheer number of these curves forces one to look at the line as a "60 mph line with the opportunity to go faster in places" rather than a "110 mph line with some slow sections". That's not all bad news, considering that highway speeds are comparable, and the 60 mph prevailing speed is a lot better than I had feared (I had figured most curves would be in the 50 mph range). So end to end times may prove to be fairly competitive to bus or car. (EDIT: This is most true east of Tweed; west of there there are certainly some credible 110 mph capable segments)

Here's the rub: Using the 0.37m/sec^2 spec, converted to mph of course, it takes a longer stretch of tangent to apply this principle than the actual track allows. I produced a table showing the distance needed for a train to accelerate from one speed to another speed.
View attachment 271638

For the most favourable scenario - ie a train having slowed to 60 mph, then sprinting back up to 110 mph, it will take 1.42 miles to get back to 110 mph. If another slow section is approaching, it will take a further 1.42 miles to slow from 110 mph back down to 60 mph. Conclusion #2: Because the tangent sections between curves are rarely a minimum of 2.84 miles long, in many places the usable speed of tangent track will frequently not be 110 mph.

The practical problem this creates is that, in the absence of a sophisticated autopilot, a train run by human hand will have difficulty handling all the changes in speed to extract the optimum speed-up/slow-down cycles required. Further, the number of full throttle-followed-by-heavy-braking cycles are not condusive to equipment SOGR or fuel efficiency. The likely solution will be to impose "zone" speeds which limit speed over the short tangent stretches to something close to or equal to the slow points of the curves.

How much does this affect the speed envelope? Here's a hypothetical example. Consider a three mile tangent section between two 60 mph curve sections. One would like the train to accelerate in between, but here's how that looks:

View attachment 271639

Now consider the alternative - just declare the whole length of track, ie the two curves, and the tangent connecting them, as one "zone" limited to 60 mph. The "No Accel" scenario shows the time required, compared to the speed-up-then-brake scenario. The "zone" scenario adds an extra minute to the timing over the "go like stink" scenario. Again, the sheer number of these short tangent sections suggests that a great deal of tangent track will not be usable at the vision of 110 mph. That will add minutes to the timing.

One reads many anecdotal accounts of how fast trains ran in the steam era, where locomotives didn't necessarily have a speedomenter, and speed enforcement was minimal. Old-school engineers did often work from the "go like stink" premise. However, I doubt that it would pass either today's regulatory regime, or a value engineering analysis.

I thought I would put this out there before I try to guesstimate where "zone" performance will be reality. It's a good news, bad news picture. While I haven't concluded that the line is a dud, I would discourage those who imagine it as a 110 mph racetrack.

Please, critique the above to shreds..... I'm still working on the granular picture, better now before I have to rework stuff.

- Paul

is 3 degrees really the maximum bank we can put on this track?
 
All those curves ...

Late to the game on this one, so forgive me if I am missing details as I only went back a few pages in the thread.

It makes me wonder, given the P3 element of the project, and the prospect of more demand and potentially higher fares with higher speed, if there will be at least a rough CBA of eliminating some additional curves/groups of curves. Should be able to write a nice little script which tiers offending curves into negative speed impacts. Calculate how much needed new ROW Take out the worst ones, then rerun the analysis. And again, and again. Soon enough you'd have 100s of options where you could apply very basic metrics for costs, and then rank all the potential ROW changes on cost versus speed tradeoffs.

And see if more than a handful are really worth it. Perhaps the reliability and frequency provides more than enough demand and fares alone, and incremental speeds aren't worth the investment. Perhaps doing almost all of them might unlock enough speed that the fare and ridership benefits outweigh the costs.
 
Just a bit of a throw back to the last time Peterborough had VIA Rail service until it was cut by Mulroney in 1990. I hadn't seen pictures of the VIA shelter beside the historic station before. The photos are by John Cowan and he has a great Facebook page for his photos here. Link to pictures here.

If those photos don't sum up the state of North American intercity rail in the 80's and 90's, then I don't know what does.
 
is 3 degrees really the maximum bank we can put on this track?

It depends.

If freight trains run on it? Yes. Any more and the amount of superelevation starts to mess up the center-of-gravity of the slower freight trains, loading the lower rail and causing accelerated rail wear.

No freights, though? I don't think that Transport Canada has any issues with up to 8 inches of superelevation (beyond their regular bullshit against passenger rail).

Dan
 
Before I proceed to the second part of the "estimating possible travel times on the existing Havelock alignment" exercise, I'd like to reply to some of the comments which have been posted in the meanwhile:

Interesting to see Train 71 leave Union almost 2 hours later. It's a more comfortable hour, that's for sure.
As long as #73 (dep. WDON 13:45) doesn't operate, having #71 arrive at 12:57 (instead of 11:02) will hardly be an issue, but it will have to operate at least 30 minutes earlier once #73 returns...


@Urban Sky thanks for all the information. I'm reading your master's thesis right now actually. It's very informative much like your posts.
Kudos for reading it and glad to hear you find it interesting enough to soldier through it...! 👍


I'm surprised the RER is 3 times that of Inter-City. I'd have guessed that VIA's new trainsets had more acceleration than the current 12-car GO trainsets.

How do the current, future, and current 10- and 12-car trains compare?
All the specs you see in that table are the result of arbitrarily selecting a train type in the literature (see table below) which I found most relevant for the Toronto-Kitchener route, but they won't necessarily have any resemblance to the capabilities of the trainsets which will actually be selected for GO RER and any other services on that corridor. That said, any service which has frequent stops (e.g. GO RER) will have a focus on acceleration, while those covering longer distances with fewer stops (e.g. VIA's HFR trains) will have a focus on maximum speed instead...
1601135078775.png

Quoted in: my Master Thesis (p.58)

To those of you that have worked on large projects like this. I've always wondered if planning and engineering can't be sped up with money? This still seems to be running so slow to me.
As Paul explained to you: even the best planning and engineering can’t offset delays incurred while obtaining the necessary approvals and funding...


is 3 degrees really the maximum bank we can put on this track?
If freight trains run on it? Yes. Any more and the amount of superelevation starts to mess up the center-of-gravity of the slower freight trains, loading the lower rail and causing accelerated rail wear.

No freights, though? I don't think that Transport Canada has any issues with up to 8 inches of superelevation (beyond their regular bullshit against passenger rail).

Dan
As I wrote in my previous post, Brightline in Florida operates with 8 inches of superelevation (5 inches of banking plus 3 inches of cant deficiency) on infrastructure which is still owned and operated by a freight railroad. Also, you should keep in mind that the freight railroad's resistance to increase the cant is less a result of safety concerns as that operating trains over tracks which is banked more than the equilibrium superelevation simply increases the tear and wear on the rails (as the wheels keep grinding at the inside of the lower rail), which suggests that even though freight railroads hate more aggressive superelevations as a RIC (rail infrastructure company), they should be rather indifferent about it on lines where they are merely a ROC (rail operating company) as a tenant...


1990 was a bad year for Transit in ontario.
Not just for transit in Ontario, but for intercity rail all across the country...
 
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Just a bit of a throw back to the last time Peterborough had VIA Rail service until it was cut by Mulroney in 1990. I hadn't seen pictures of the VIA shelter beside the historic station before. The photos are by John Cowan and he has a great Facebook page for his photos here. Link to pictures here.

View attachment 271773

View attachment 271774

View attachment 271775

View attachment 271776

View attachment 271777

View attachment 271778

The state of a still in-service station (at the time), in a comparatively major town was indicative of the value place on rail service, certainly the politicians and arguably the broader public.

That's the sort of thing that drives ridership lower over time, making cut politically easier.

Death by (wilful) negligence.

****

This is a problem not unique to inter-city rail; always be weary of under-invested in infrastructure and public services, as the can lead to cuts and/or privatization, as the service deteriorates and becomes less popular.

It can apply to roads, rail, buses, long-term care, public healthcare, education/schools or parks.

Remember to call out that the ridership/usage is not down 50% because people don't like parks, schools or transit; its down because the service/location is neglected and offers poor service.
 

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