VIA Rail

[lead82]

This is good news. However it also shows that VIA should focus on improving service in the Corridor and on the Ocean. I think the East Coast is under services. The Ocean should be restored to at least 6x a week service if not daily. Given that there is little freight congestion on the Ocean, what is holding back VIA from offering more service throughout the year and not just over holidays?

As for the Canadian, the CN delays have really hurt ridership as the schedule there is a joke now and being late over 24hrs is a sad state of affairs.

 

[micheal_can]

This is good news. However it also shows that VIA should focus on improving service in the Corridor and on the Ocean. I think the East Coast is under services. The Ocean should be restored to at least 6x a week service if not daily. Given that there is little freight congestion on the Ocean, what is holding back VIA from offering more service throughout the year and not just over holidays?

As for the Canadian, the CN delays have really hurt ridership as the schedule there is a joke now and being late over 24hrs is a sad state of affairs.

How could we fix the Canadian?

 

[lead82]

Good question. The only way that I see is to have the federal government mandate all railroads to upgrade their infrastructure by extending the rail sidings throughout the country or forcing the construction of a second rail so that passenger trains can pass and the long freight trains can pull over to the siding. Realistically this will not happen as there is not enough passenger train volume to justify it. The only hope we have is that if freight rail traffic gets heavy enough CN will be forced to do upgrades by building double tracks and extending sidings. Until then the Canadian performance will get worse.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Had a chat with someone with good Infrastructure Bank knowledge, and general industry familiarity. Evidently the preference is for large projects in the multi-billion range, rather than the smaller multi-hundred million dollar range. The larger the project, the larger the returns (but larger risk of course). Bodes well for HFR.

 

[Urban Sky]

The Ocean should be restored to at least 6x a week service if not daily. Given that there is little freight congestion on the Ocean, what is holding back VIA from offering more service throughout the year and not just over holidays?

In absence of any authority of speaking on behalf of my employer, I will try to provide you some information which may allow to derive a possible answer to this question: given that train 15 arrives in Halifax after train 14 departs, you would need a third train consist to operate more than 4 times a week. Critical cars like the Renaissance Diner are only available 3 times, according to VIA's homepage. One Renaissance trainset may be replaced through a HEP consist during winter, which happens to be when the Canadian requires one set less due to its frequency being reduced from three to two per week...

As for the Canadian, the CN delays have really hurt ridership as the schedule there is a joke now and being late over 24hrs is a sad state of affairs.

I can assure you that nobody takes pride in the sad state of on-time performance on the Canadian, but even there 24+ hours has so far been an extreme exception (some data for Summer 2017 can be found here) and one or two weeks with admittedly extreme delays (but under not much less extreme winter conditions) might not be enough yet to assess whether this has become the new normal...

 

[smallspy]

In absence of any authority of speaking on behalf of my employer, I will try to provide you some information which may allow to derive a possible answer to this question: given that train 15 arrives in Halifax after train 14 departs, you would need a third train consist to operate more than 4 times a week. Critical cars like the Renaissance Diner are only available 3 times, according to VIA's homepage. One Renaissance trainset may be replaced through a HEP consist during winter, which happens to be when the Canadian requires one set less due to its frequency being reduced from three to two per week...

The fleet hasn't increased or decreased since the cutting back of the Ocean to 3 days a week. While it appears that one of the overnight Renaissance sets has been permanently removed from service, there is more than enough Budd equipment - even in the summer months - to allow for a dedicated fleet of equipment to use on the Ocean to improve service to 6 times weekly.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Urban Sky]

[...] there is more than enough Budd equipment - even in the summer months - to allow for a dedicated fleet of equipment to use on the Ocean to improve service to 6 times weekly.

In absence of any authorization for discussing the fleet availability of my employer (or other motivators behind decisions which concern the frequencies of its passenger services) publicly, I will have to leave this claim uncontradicted...

 

[smallspy]

In absence of any authorization for discussing the fleet availability of my employer (or other motivators behind decisions which concern the frequencies of its passenger services) publicly, I will have to leave this claim uncontradicted...

Nice. Say nothing, and yet say so much at the same time.

Well, how about this for size....

The HEP1 Budd fleet currently consists of 42 coaches, 29 Chateau and 40 Manor sleepers, 13 diners, 15 Skyline dome cars, 18 baggage cars and 14 Park tail-end dome cars. Of those, 4 Park cars and 8 have been converted for Prestige service and must be used on the Canadian, leaving 10 and 21 cars of the two types, respectively.

To add to that, Chateau cars are only used on the Canadian in the summer months, and generally only 1 car per train. There are 4 Canadian trainsets, so there's another 4 of those gone. Along with the 3 or 4 that are allocated to northern Manitoba service, that leaves 13 or 14 Chateau sleepers to use on the Ocean. Diners are used on the the Canadian (8) and Northern Manitoba (2), leaving 3 spare. 12 of the Skyline domes are in use on the Canadian, so while they could use one on the Ocean, I don't see i t being an absolute necessity. And the Park cars are the most under-utilized car type in the fleet, with 6 or 7 spares at any given time. And so therefore there's enough for the one additional trainset (2 Renaissance trainsets plus this Budd set) that would be required to increase service to 6 times weekly.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cplchanb]

Nice. Say nothing, and yet say so much at the same time.

Well, how about this for size....

The HEP1 Budd fleet currently consists of 42 coaches, 29 Chateau and 40 Manor sleepers, 13 diners, 15 Skyline dome cars, 18 baggage cars and 14 Park tail-end dome cars. Of those, 4 Park cars and 8 have been converted for Prestige service and must be used on the Canadian, leaving 10 and 21 cars of the two types, respectively.

To add to that, Chateau cars are only used on the Canadian in the summer months, and generally only 1 car per train. There are 4 Canadian trainsets, so there's another 4 of those gone. Along with the 3 or 4 that are allocated to northern Manitoba service, that leaves 13 or 14 Chateau sleepers to use on the Ocean. Diners are used on the the Canadian (8) and Northern Manitoba (2), leaving 3 spare. 12 of the Skyline domes are in use on the Canadian, so while they could use one on the Ocean, I don't see i t being an absolute necessity. And the Park cars are the most under-utilized car type in the fleet, with 6 or 7 spares at any given time. And so therefore there's enough for the one additional trainset (2 Renaissance trainsets plus this Budd set) that would be required to increase service to 6 times weekly.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Im really wondering when via will get their act together and find the resources and willpower to replace these ancient relics. These trains belong at best on a seasonal tourist schedule not on mainline duties. i bet they are older than the parents of the staff who operate them. I am waiting for the day when via truly is modernised with 21st century equipment instead of being a joke of a national railway.

 

[crs1026]

Well, how about this for size....

The HEP1 Budd fleet currently consists of 42 coaches, 29 Chateau and 40 Manor sleepers, 13 diners, 15 Skyline dome cars, 18 baggage cars and 14 Park tail-end dome cars. Of those, 4 Park cars and 8 have been converted for Prestige service and must be used on the Canadian, leaving 10 and 21 cars of the two types, respectively.

To add to that, Chateau cars are only used on the Canadian in the summer months, and generally only 1 car per train. There are 4 Canadian trainsets, so there's another 4 of those gone. Along with the 3 or 4 that are allocated to northern Manitoba service, that leaves 13 or 14 Chateau sleepers to use on the Ocean. Diners are used on the the Canadian (8) and Northern Manitoba (2), leaving 3 spare. 12 of the Skyline domes are in use on the Canadian, so while they could use one on the Ocean, I don't see i t being an absolute necessity. And the Park cars are the most under-utilized car type in the fleet, with 6 or 7 spares at any given time. And so therefore there's enough for the one additional trainset (2 Renaissance trainsets plus this Budd set) that would be required to increase service to 6 times weekly.

Ah, but a half dozen (or more?) of those 42 coaches are actually deployed in Corridor service. That's a lot of lost revenue, and maybe a trainset or two short, if they are drawn down into Ocean service.
Also, even if that equipment is available, with 6x service the layover time in Montreal is reduced to less than 8 hours from 30+. Are the spares and key maintenance equipment for the Ren fleet kept in Montreal, or in Halifax? Considering how long it takes to swap out a single car from a Ren train, 8 hours doesn't leave a lot of time for repairs in Montreal.
And, we don't know the true idleness of those extra Chateau cars, versus the number required to cover for shop work for the fleet.
The whole transcontinental service is slowly collapsing under its own weight. It's prudent not to stress it unduly. Given the choice of getting another decade out of the Budd fleet by using it as at present, versus getting eight years out of it under more taxing use, I'm content with what VIA is doing. It's a damn shame, because the Maritimes deserve and could easily justify the added service.
Nobody is going to invest in a new fleet. It clearly isn't a priority for Ottawa, and it's not going to attract private capital.
We need to grab every opportunity to ride what we have now.....these are the good old days.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

Ah, but a half dozen (or more?) of those 42 coaches are actually deployed in Corridor service. That's a lot of lost revenue, and maybe a trainset or two short, if they are drawn down into Ocean service.
Also, even if that equipment is available, with 6x service the layover time in Montreal is reduced to less than 8 hours from 30+. Are the spares and key maintenance equipment for the Ren fleet kept in Montreal, or in Halifax? Considering how long it takes to swap out a single car from a Ren train, 8 hours doesn't leave a lot of time for repairs in Montreal.
And, we don't know the true idleness of those extra Chateau cars, versus the number required to cover for shop work for the fleet.
The whole transcontinental service is slowly collapsing under its own weight. It's prudent not to stress it unduly. Given the choice of getting another decade out of the Budd fleet by using it as at present, versus getting eight years out of it under more taxing use, I'm content with what VIA is doing. It's a damn shame, because the Maritimes deserve and could easily justify the added service.
Nobody is going to invest in a new fleet. It clearly isn't a priority for Ottawa, and it's not going to attract private capital.
We need to grab every opportunity to ride what we have now.....these are the good old days.

- Paul

perhaps it would be better long term to invest on regional services that are connected at intermediate termini. west central and east can take a branch of the line so that they can maintain their own services more reliably and potentially faster.
intercontinental is simply too far to be reliable. 1 slip in the schedule snowballs to hours of delays. I wonder if via can follow what JR does and split into regional branches yet still remain integrated when it comes to fares.

 

[Urban Sky]

I wonder if via can follow what JR does and split into regional branches yet still remain integrated when it comes to fares.

Japan Rail Group is split into six separate railroad corporations, each of which is partly or fully private and has its own administration with all the overheads attached. I couldn't agree more that there is a lot we could learn from Japan (having been there myself last year), but I'm not exactly sure what aspects you are proposing to reproduce on this side of the Pacific...

 

[cplchanb]

Japan Rail Group is split into six separate railroad corporations, each of which is partly or fully private and has its own administration with all the overheads attached. I couldn't agree more that there is a lot we could learn from Japan (having been there myself last year), but I'm not exactly sure what aspects you are proposing to reproduce on this side of the Pacific...

well if they were separate entities, the cost of maintaining service that stretches across the continent wouldnt have to be borne by regions where there wont be any effect.
Right now the entire fleet needs to be replaced and its damn expensive. However if operations were separated their budget would also be separate. I would think that would allow
for more better spending on items that each region needs over not being able to provide to the east because the west is in dire straights.

 

[steveintoronto]

Im really wondering when via will get their act together and find the resources and willpower to replace these ancient relics.

Right now the entire fleet needs to be replaced and its damn expensive.

Then by all means badger your MP, and write and kick and scream to the Transport Ministry and/or Trudeau/Morneau/Garneau how it's *beyond time* to fund the Fleet Renewal program.

No-one would back you more than VIA themselves. VIA is completely at the behest of Parliament, and in some ways, the Transport Minister even without Parliamentary participation (the various Acts grant power to the "Governor in Council", effectively the Minister, the latter actually stated in some Acts).

VIA *has no power to raise their own capital*!

 

[cplchanb]

Then by all means badger your MP, and write and kick and scream to the Transport Ministry and/or Trudeau/Morneau/Garneau how it's *beyond time* to fund the Fleet Renewal program.

No-one would back you more than VIA themselves. VIA is completely at the behest of Parliament, and in some ways, the Transport Minister even without Parliamentary participation (the various Acts grant power to the "Governor in Council", effectively the Minister, the latter actually stated in some Acts).

VIA *has no power to raise their own capital*!

well... perhaps it is time to privatise or at least partially with subsidies from the govt. This crown corporation has clearly outgrown its master