VIA Rail

[trebello]

Land cruises aren't much better for the environment than sea cruises: Cancelling the service entirely would be the only environmentally friendly move.

The corridor has promise from an environmental perspective but for point-to-point travel the Canadian is terrible in that regard.

It's probably more accurate to compare someone riding in a sleeper cabin to someone renting an RV to drive cross the country. The GHG emissions of someone in economy is less than what you'd get flying or driving (a car) and the emissions of someone in a sleeper are likely less than in an RV. I guess the question is if the service didn't exist, would people just not travel, or travel by some other, more damaging mode.

 

[crs1026]

Land cruises aren't much better for the environment than sea cruises: Cancelling the service entirely would be the only environmentally friendly move.

The corridor has promise from an environmental perspective but for point-to-point travel the Canadian is terrible in that regard.

When we get to the point that we are seriously considering this kind of move as part of the carbon strategy, we will be wading through a long list of other things that also "frivolously" carbon producing but have great public sentiment...... water skiing, Formula I races, antique aircraft flights, Civil War reenactments, the Santa Claus Parade, Canada Day fireworks, Friday the 13th meets in Port Dover, bachelor weekends in Vegas....... it won't be a pretty set of choices.

I suspect a very aggressive carbon stop policy would have to budget for a small number of "keep people happy" exceptions which would be fought over tooth and nail. Can't wait for the politicians to weigh in on that one.

Sadly, I suspect that if it were a case of choosing between keeping VIA long distance trains or gas leaf blowers, the public sentiment would choose leaf blowers.

But maybe we can electrify the railways and enable cruise trains that aren't so bad. The cruise ships can fend for themselves.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

When we get to the point that we are seriously considering this kind of move as part of the carbon strategy, we will be wading through a long list of other things that also "frivolously" carbon producing but have great public sentiment...... water skiing, Formula I races, antique aircraft flights, Civil War reenactments, the Santa Claus Parade, Canada Day fireworks, bachelor weekends in Vegas....... it won't be a pretty set of choices.

I suspect a very aggressive carbon stop policy would have to make exceptions which would be fought over tooth and nail. Can't wait for the politicians to weigh in on that one.

Sadly, I suspect that if it were a case of choosing between keeping VIA long distance trains and gas leaf blowers, the public sentiment would choose leaf blowers.

But maybe we can electrify the railways and enable cruise trains that aren't so bad. The cruise ships can fend for themselves.

- Paul

Hybrid locomotives can reduce emissions by 30%. That's probably smarter than electrifying 5000km's of track.

 

[Allandale25]

Received this from Chris West, an advocate in southwestern Ontario: "Canadian Club of London event featuring Martin R. Landry, VIA Rail, hosted at City of London."

1. I understand the need for passenger demand before you add more frequency to trips to and from London, but are you concerned that passengers might fall into new habits of travel or become frustrated if the frequency isn't available when they try to book a trip?

VIA Rail:
VIA Rail puts passengers first at all times and our priority is to offer more services to match the passenger's needs. We have many factors to consider when preparing our schedule. One of the biggest is the demand, because it is the clearest indicator of the need for service. After two years of pandemic and remote working, people’s transportation habits might have changed and that’s why we are closely monitoring demand to make sure we can offer service based on our passengers’ specific needs. We are doing all this of course, while continuing to employ a balanced approach in order to fulfill VIA Rail’s important public service mandate and managing the financial impacts of the pandemic.

2. Do you have any advice for London on how we can become a successful regional transportation hub?

VIA Rail:
We would first like to point out that we’re looking forward to the report from the South-Western Ontario Taskforce, chaired by Mayor Holder.

We think it’s not about one single solution, but it is about trying to improve and articulate multiple means of transportation. Right now, intramodality is more important than ever before. And we have to find ways to get more people from point A to point B without adding more cars on the road and reducing the bottlenecks. Obviously, VIA Rail believes that part of the solution is going to be trains, but part of it is also going to be with active transportation, buses, etc.

London can become a successful regional transportation hub if we aim to create an ecosystem of transportation, and VIA wants to be a part of that project.

3. Is VIA getting the support it needs from the federal government as it negotiates more frequencies and OTP with the private railways?

VIA Rail:
We’re not able to give you specific comments and details on our negotiations, but we can tell you our negotiations are moving forward right now and we’re hoping to reach a deal that is agreeable for both parties soon.

We are having ongoing discussions with the Federal Government and our many stakeholders to always adjust our frequencies based on the passengers’ needs.

4. It appears VIA is ending all rail passes June 30th. Does VIA plan to replace these with new rail pass options? Or discontinued?

VIA Rail:
The rail passes currently offered by VIA Rail do not respond to the travel needs of our passengers as they were not popular with low sales.

As we are in the process of launching a new reservation system, which will enable us to offer different types of passes, we are taking the opportunity to create an offer that is better adapted to our clients’ needs.

These new products will be launched progressively in fall 2022 and winter 2023 to accompany deployment of our new reservation system in 2023.

 

[Bordercollie]

Received this from Chris West, an advocate in southwestern Ontario: "Canadian Club of London event featuring Martin R. Landry, VIA Rail, hosted at City of London."

So then how about integrating other modes of transportation with VIA? How about including your local transit ticket Included as part of your ticket.

 

[Urban Sky]

So then how about integrating other modes of transportation with VIA? How about including your local transit ticket Included as part of your ticket.

If you are able to propose a cost-effective and fast way how every bus driver in London can validate printouts or barcodes of digital VIA ticket to determine if it really entitles them to this journey, how about approaching the city of London to kindly offer your help…?

 

[Urban Sky]

Hybrid locomotives can reduce emissions by 30%. That's probably smarter than electrifying 5000km's of track.

I assume that when you say „Hybrid locomotives“ you mean battery-electric trains. A recent study has recommended such technology (BEMU trainsets) for the remaining non-electrified lines in Baden-Württemberg (home to the former Canadian military base in Lahr):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582512310244868096

How well do you think short BEMUs bridging short gaps (maybe 40 km) between lines or end points which are already electrified scale up to massive locomotives carrying ten times their weight in cars and running 4000 km across the country without longer layovers?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Hybrid locomotives can reduce emissions by 30%. That's probably smarter than electrifying 5000km's of track.

I’ve been thinking that the Canadian would actually be a particularly good testing ground for proper road hydrogen locomotives. Long distances, but limited number of terminals, small overall fleet, reasonable train sizes etc.

 

[rbt]

It's probably more accurate to compare someone riding in a sleeper cabin to someone renting an RV to drive cross the country. The GHG emissions of someone in economy is less than what you'd get flying or driving (a car) and the emissions of someone in a sleeper are likely less than in an RV. I guess the question is if the service didn't exist, would people just not travel, or travel by some other, more damaging mode.

I'm not saying the line shouldn't exist or get funding. I'm just saying that Bordercollie's proposal to use an environmental improvement fund isn't appropriate for VIA rolling stock renewal. Stretch the definition of "environmental improvement" enough that far it'll become a catch-all fund for any pet project (like a new NFL stadium or equally absurd items).

Tossing a few of the new Wabtec battery locomotives on VIA trains might apply to that type of funding source.

 

[Urban Sky]

Can we just accept that whatever method will be applied to any transcontinental rail service will be driven by freight operations and that VIA therefore is just a decision taker which will have to adopt whatever electrification decisions are made for the freight rail sector?

Also, given the small overlap with VIA Rail, this discussion would be more appropriate for our General Rail Discussions thread…

 

[Bureaucromancer]

JN

Can we just accept that whatever method will be applied to any transcontinental rail service will be driven by freight operations and that VIA therefore is just a decision taker which will have to adopt whatever electrification decisions are made for the freight rail sector?

Also, given the small overlap with VIA Rail, this discussion would be more appropriate for our General Rail Discussions thread…

I'm gonna go with not necessarily on both points.

If we're talking about OLE, we're likely to see significant passenger mileage long before any of the private operators jump in, so the corridor and/or Alberta have every potential to set the norms here.

If we're talking something else, VIA is independent enough that they aren't especially wedded to what the freight operators do.

 

[Urban Sky]

If we're talking about OLE, we're likely to see significant passenger mileage long before any of the private operators jump in, so the corridor and/or Alberta have every potential to set the norms here.

I was explicitly referring to transcontinental rail services.

If we're talking something else, VIA is independent enough that they aren't especially wedded to what the freight operators do.

No form of electrification can be sustained without coverage from a network of supply infrastructure (as electricity has to somehow reach the train) and building that required infrastructure can never be justified for stretches of 1000+ km which see only 2-3 trains per week. To argue anything else is delusional…

 

[Bordercollie]

JN

I'm gonna go with not necessarily on both points.

If we're talking about OLE, we're likely to see significant passenger mileage long before any of the private operators jump in, so the corridor and/or Alberta have every potential to set the norms here.

If we're talking something else, VIA is independent enough that they aren't especially wedded to what the freight operators do.

So you want to build overhead cantanary and infrastructure to electrify 5000km of track for a train that runs two or three times a week?

Especially considering that they dont even own their own corridor?

 

[Bordercollie]

KSL.com: UTA auctioning historic Comet train cars to make way for future improvements.

UTA auctioning historic Comet train cars to make way for future improvements

The Utah Transit Authority acquired the 50-year-old cars in 2008 and has put them to good use, but it's out with the old in order to get grants for new Frontrunner rail cars.

www.ksl.com

Could they purchase these comets that were recently refurbished to be used in place of the LRC's that have been retired? They could reuse the seats from the retired cars. They wouldn't need buffer cars either. It would be temporary until the new fleet arrives.

 

[crs1026]

KSL.com: UTA auctioning historic Comet train cars to make way for future improvements.

UTA auctioning historic Comet train cars to make way for future improvements

The Utah Transit Authority acquired the 50-year-old cars in 2008 and has put them to good use, but it's out with the old in order to get grants for new Frontrunner rail cars.

www.ksl.com

Could they purchase these comets that were recently refurbished to be used in place of the LRC's that have been retired? They could reuse the seats from the retired cars. They wouldn't need buffer cars either. It would be temporary until the new fleet arrives.

Scouring the continent for worn out equipment that is not quite as worn out as the LRC’s is nobody’s solution to this problem.
Well, I can think of so called activists/ consultants who do that… but I wouldn’t go there.
The new equipment is on its way…. Putting energy and money into a patch is just not good business.

- Paul