VIA Rail

[SaugeenJunction]

I was doing some digging and found this interesting page from Systra Canada which provides an overview of HFR work that they conducted.

Here is an overview:

The specific services provided by SYSTRA Canada were as follows:

• Review of previous studies;
• Evaluation of the ridership;
• Assessment of technical-economic options;
• Financial Modeling;
• Risk assessment;
• Preparation of a Business Plan;
• Preliminary Environmental Impact Assessment to determine environmental and social considerations during construction;
• Definition of Design Criteria;
• Field Investigations and determination of upgrade requirements including:
  • Surveying services;
  • Geotechnical investigations;
  • Bridge & Culvert inspections;
  • Track inspections;
  • Level Crossing inspections;
  • Assessment of electric and diesel locomotive options;
• Evaluation of optional electrification costs;
• Preliminary CTC (Centralized Traffic Control) arrangement;
• Evaluation of the impacts associated with Utilities;
• Relocation of existing Multi-User trail;
• Preliminary arrangement of Passenger Stations;
• Alignment optimization;
• Preparation of an operations plan;
• Preparation of a Track Schematic;
• Simulation of cycles times for the optimized route;
• Evaluation of the use of Sidings vs Passing Tracks;
• Re-optimization of the alignment to ease tight curves;
• Evaluation of legal considerations and estimation of land acquisition;
• Determination of cut and fill volumes required during the project;
• Preparation of a drawing package including: plans, condensed profile, typical details, preliminary bridge design, earthworks, cross sections, etc.;
• Preparation of Performance Specifications for the Design-Build process;
• Evaluation of material type and minimum material requirements needed for the rail foundation as well as quantities for each rail component;
• Preparation of a preliminary Bill of Quantities;
• Development of Phasing, Construction planning and strategy;
• Evaluation of Capital Expenses;
• 20% level engineering Study of the Quebec-Montreal Corridor.

 

[kEiThZ]

That was in 2016 though. That was just enough justification to fund the JPO. I'm really curious how much of the JPO's work is "Pre-procurement". Are we going to see 2 yrs of EAs after they announce in the Spring? Or are they going to get shovels in the ground in 2022. As it stands, we're looking at service launch probably in 2026. Hopefully it doesn't move even further to the right....

 

[crs1026]

^That’s actually quite a long list of deliverables. Assuming the EA doesn’t point to new issues, one would expect those deliverables to represent a meaningful % of design completion. Or were they just conceptual wish lists? One would expect a fair number of those outputs to have a PEng stamp on them, and bring things close to shovel readiness, or at least procurement readiness.

- Paul

 

[Mcurtis]

To introduce a variable to the conversation.

- Has anyone heard anything about the new trainsets that they purchased from Siemens? Are they still on the same timeline for deployment or has COVID caused development and deployment delays?

- From a hypothetical perspective. Do you guys feel that there would be a market for a regular route from London to Kingston? Essentially, the same business model that GO transit ran 5-8 years ago where they do a couple of runs to Toronto in the morning/afternoons with business traffic. Continue on to Kingston and turn around to Toronto to open up both communities along the route to more viable housing markets for Toronto businesses and provide extra commuter opportunities with fewer trainsets?

i.e London: Toronto: Kingston:
04:30 06:50 09:20
05:30 07:50 10:20
06:30 08:50 11:20

Kingston: Toronto: London:
04:40 07:10 09:30
05:40 08:10 10:30
06:40 09:10 11:30

Similar start times starting in Kingston heading to London in the mornings with 3 trains each direction at the end of the day as well.

London: Toronto: London:
13:30 15:50 18:10
14:30 16:50 19:10
15:30 17:50 20:10

Running a couple trains from Toronto to London only since Kingston has a number of trains already servicing it in the afternoons.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

To introduce a variable to the conversation.

- Has anyone heard anything about the new trainsets that they purchased from Siemens? Are they still on the same timeline for deployment or has COVID caused development and deployment delays?

- From a hypothetical perspective. Do you guys feel that there would be a market for a regular route from London to Kingston? Essentially, the same business model that GO transit ran 5-8 years ago where they do a couple of runs to Toronto in the morning/afternoons with business traffic. Continue on to Kingston and turn around to Toronto to open up both communities along the route to more viable housing markets for Toronto businesses and provide extra commuter opportunities with fewer trainsets?

i.e London: Toronto: Kingston:
04:30 06:50 09:20
05:30 07:50 10:20
06:30 08:50 11:20

Kingston: Toronto: London:
04:40 07:10 09:30
05:40 08:10 10:30
06:40 09:10 11:30

Similar start times starting in Kingston heading to London in the mornings with 3 trains each direction at the end of the day as well.

London: Toronto: London:
13:30 15:50 18:10
14:30 16:50 19:10
15:30 17:50 20:10

Running a couple trains from Toronto to London only since Kingston has a number of trains already servicing it in the afternoons.

During VIA's recent public meeting, they did mention the fleet replacement (Siemens train set), and that they aren't aware of any delays and that there is no impact on the fleet replacement program due to Covid-19.

 

[kEiThZ]

- From a hypothetical perspective. Do you guys feel that there would be a market for a regular route from London to Kingston?

Only in a situation where the network is developed enough to allow for through service at Union. Otherwise, it's going to be a nightmare for guys like @Urban Sky with scheduling and all the delays.

 

[crs1026]

Once Union's platform configuration is reworked, one would hope there could be across-the-platform transfers at Union that would remove the necessity to go downstairs. But as @kEiThZ notes, there are risks in through operation that would need a lot of work to ensure reliable timekeeping.

- Paul

 

[kEiThZ]

On a different note, everytime I see a picture of Brightline's trains, I kinda wish VIA bought the streamlined version, just for the PR value....

 

[roger1818]

Only in a situation where the network is developed enough to allow for through service at Union. Otherwise, it's going to be a nightmare for guys like @Urban Sky with scheduling and all the delays.

The other big issue is VIA is limited by CN as to how many trains it can run along the lakeshore. While there is enough demand for VIA to run one train a day each way with Kingston as a terminus, the vast majority of the trains continue on to either Ottawa or Montreal. The only ways to have trains from Kingston to London would be to either reduce the number of trains continuing to/from either Ottawa or Montreal. or have trains to/from Ottawa or Montreal continue on to/from London. The consequences of the former is obvious and for the latter, because of the reliability issues VIA has on shared tracks, extending the routes would compound those issues.

This could be much easier after HFR, as it would be much easier to have more trains terminate in Kingston.

 

[roger1818]

On a different note, everytime I see a picture of Brightline's trains, I kinda wish VIA bought the streamlined version, just for the PR value....

We will have to see what the real locomotives look like but from the sketches, the only significant differences I see is that VIA has a snowplow and the coupler is exposed (where as Brightline has a cowling over it). The snowplow is an obvious requirement for VIA and since VIA does operate some split services, having a cowling could be problematic and it would likely be kept off all the time.

GoBrightline/Facebook

VIA Rail / Website

 

[sacred]

Whenever I find myself traveling between Montreal and Kitchener (by train the whole way, if GO is running a train at an agreeable time), I dream of how much GO expansion and HFR will improve that trip. It essentially takes up a full day's energy to do that trip today. HFR with a painless transfer could have you make the trip over an evening (albeit a long one).
This may be a pipe dream, but with the occasional through train to Saint-Lambert...

 

[jayme2016]

The other big issue is VIA is limited by CN as to how many trains it can run along the lakeshore. While there is enough demand for VIA to run one train a day each way with Kingston as a terminus, the vast majority of the trains continue on to either Ottawa or Montreal. The only ways to have trains from Kingston to London would be to either reduce the number of trains continuing to/from either Ottawa or Montreal. or have trains to/from Ottawa or Montreal continue on to/from London. The consequences of the former is obvious and for the latter, because of the reliability issues VIA has on shared tracks, extending the routes would compound those issues.

This could be much easier after HFR, as it would be much easier to have more trains terminate in Kingston.

There is massive demand Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto.

 

[cplchanb]

We will have to see what the real locomotives look like but from the sketches, the only significant differences I see is that VIA has a snowplow and the coupler is exposed (where as Brightline has a cowling over it). The snowplow is an obvious requirement for VIA and since VIA does operate some split services, having a cowling could be problematic and it would likely be kept off all the time.

GoBrightline/Facebook

VIA Rail / Website

Honestly though I think our version looks better as the brightline head looks like it melted

 

[SFO-YYZ]

We will have to see what the real locomotives look like but from the sketches, the only significant differences I see is that VIA has a snowplow and the coupler is exposed (where as Brightline has a cowling over it). The snowplow is an obvious requirement for VIA and since VIA does operate some split services, having a cowling could be problematic and it would likely be kept off all the time.

GoBrightline/Facebook

VIA Rail / Website

Quick question on level boarding with regards to the new train sets. In Montreal and Quebec City there'd be level boarding just like today, but what about Union and other stations? Are there plans to raise platforms at Union or other corridor stations to accommodate the new fleet? I feel like that alone (raised platform) would be "transformative" in terms of smoothing out the customer experience + a whole train set = PR win.

 

[kEiThZ]

Whenever I find myself traveling between Montreal and Kitchener (by train the whole way, if GO is running a train at an agreeable time), I dream of how much GO expansion and HFR will improve that trip. It essentially takes up a full day's energy to do that trip today. HFR with a painless transfer could have you make the trip over an evening (albeit a long one).
This may be a pipe dream, but with the occasional through train to Saint-Lambert...

Ideally, the second phase of HFR is a through service at Union, to Pearson-Kitchener-London, the proposed Ontario High Speed Rail route. They would enable travel from Kitchener to Montreal in 6 hrs with no transfers.