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VIA Rail

Further "official" input on the Calgary to Edmonton train.

This refers one to

Bottom line:

Committee recommendations
1. The Government of Alberta should not invest in a high-speed rail transit system in the Edmonton-Calgary corridor at this time because the population of the corridor is not sufficient to support the profitable operation of such a system.

2. The Government of Alberta should include in its long-term transportation infrastructure strategic plan the expansion of light-rail transit and the development of regional transportation systems.

3. As part of the long-term transportation infrastructure strategic plan, the Government of Alberta should identify a greenfield transportation/utility corridor between Calgary and Edmonton to assist in future transportation infrastructure planning with capacity for a potential high-speed rail transit system.

4. The Government of Alberta should begin the process of acquiring land for a transportation/utility corridor right-of-way between Calgary and Edmonton, as budgets warrant, following public consultation with affected landowners, including aboriginal groups.

5. The Government of Alberta should investigate the development of a regulatory model to allow for private investors who can raise both the capital for high-speed infrastructure and procurement of land to be able to go forward to build this necessary infrastructure.
 
3. As part of the long-term transportation infrastructure strategic plan, the Government of Alberta should identify a greenfield transportation/utility corridor between Calgary and Edmonton to assist in future transportation infrastructure planning with capacity for a potential high-speed rail transit system.

4. The Government of Alberta should begin the process of acquiring land for a transportation/utility corridor right-of-way between Calgary and Edmonton, as budgets warrant, following public consultation with affected landowners, including aboriginal groups.

These seem like very positive steps. Whether in 2030 or in 2100, some kind of higher order transportation will eventually be wanted between these cities.
 
Good to see electrification being protected for since this could be VIA's future HFR route into Union Station. Maybe if it's built (and yes, I realize it's a maybe) HFR could be electrified one day. Presentation linked to in the text below has further details on the exacted location.

Update on the Riverdale Sloped Path
City Staff were delayed due to waiting on the final comments from Metrolinx on the 90% design [earlier here I wrote that the design was 100% complete - I was incorrect].
TIMELINES:
  • June 2019 – Comments were received from Metrolinx on the 90% design plans for the ramp.
  • June/July 2019 – Comments were reviewed by staff and Consultant team to determine a way forward and respond to Metrolinx.
  • The comments from Metrolinx on the 90% design plans included two significant new engineering studies that had not been previously requested. These include a Rail Hazard Assessment Study and an Integration of Electrification Requirements Study.
    • The new studies require additional funding to be allocated to the Consultant's purchase order. In the interim the Consultant team was directed by Divisional partners to proceed with the additional work.
    • A purchase order adjustment is in process for adding the funds to the Consultant's purchase order.
    • The two new studies are expected to be completed by October 2019.
    • Design refinements will continue to end of year with project tender anticipated in January 2020.
    • Construction expected to start spring 2020 with completion before end of 2020 (weather depending)

      --------

      ^Michael Holloway
      - slightly edited for this post - via Councillor Paula Fletcher's Constituency Assistant, Nicolas Valverde.

      Images via "Lower Don Access Sloped Path Stakeholder Meeting July 19, 2018": https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/9742-lower-don-trail-improvements-stakeholder-meeting-july-2018.pdf

Source:

 
I want to chime in to say:
“Please continue contributing to these forums.”

I like your data-filled posts as the only well-known VIA employee here.
Thank you, and as you can see: I'm still here.

P.S. My experience running a discussion forum as an admin and/or as an unpaid volunteer moderator (including running forums bigger than this one) is, there is a left hand/right hand situation especially with volunteer moderators versus administrators. The non-admin volunteer moderators have no access to your private messages, and most ethical admins will avoid looking at private messages (except under things like subpoenas etc).
I don't expect (or want) moderators or admins to read my personal messages. My point was that I reported several posts of one member, get ignored, let myself get involved in quite a stupid back-and-forth in which I repeatedly plead the moderators to step in, while it lasted almost a week and suddenly stopped when we have a brief exchange per personal message. Fast forward another week and we suddenly get banned. Either react in a timely manner or simply leave it!

Just to give you an idea of how long the conflict lasted without any moderator/admin bothering to intervene:
August 2, 1:47 PM [Post #831 in a different thread]: initial comment by nfitz (reported by me within hours)
August 2, 7:07 PM [#835]: my direct response
August 2, 8:03 PM [#838]: response by nfitz
August 2, 8:28 PM [#839]: response by myself
August 2, 11:01 PM [#840]: response by nfitz
August 3, 12:19 PM [#841]: response by myself with criticism directed at mods/admins for their inaction
August 3, 12:30 PM [#842]: response by nfitz
August 3, 12:47 PM [#843]: response by myself, again with the same criticism directed at mods/admins
August 3, 12:54 PM [#844]: response by nfitz
August 3, 1:21 PM [#845]: response by myself
August 5, 8:52 AM [#849]: (after someone took offense by the same comment) response by myself, directly addressing an admin which had previously intervened in the same thread.
August 5, 12:44 PM [#850]: indirect response by nfitz
August 5, 3:03 PM [#853]: indirect response by nfitz
August 5, 3:10 PM [#856]: indirect response by nfitz
August 5, 3:56 PM [#857]: response by myself with very direct attacks which I have subsequently removed (hence the "***" in that post), after I read his rather emotional response later that day, in which he showed himself hurt by what he perceived as personal and unfair attacks. I wrote him a long response in which I apologised for what I had just realised to be a false accusation (that he would get a free pass here because of personal connections I wrongly suspected between him and the admin team), to which I didn't receive a response, but he deleted his last comment promptly, which prompted me to also edit my last comment.
August 12: I receive a message that I have been banned for 10 days and nfitz for 1 year.

You see: it took us 3 days (it apparently only felt like "almost a week") to set our conflict aside, but it took the UT team 10 days to even react (and then directly over-react). I don't know what more I can do than to report comments I find gratuitously offensive and to directly ask an admin to step in and have this discussion moderated (by himself or someone else). The subject of our dispute (whether this is the right place to volunteer a derogatory political opinion of a government which is outside of the geographical post of this forum) was laughable, but the only thing even more ridiculous is that someone got banned for one year for simply participating in such a dispute (or rather: for getting dragged into such a dispute by me).

Elsewhere, I frequently see volunteer moderators surprised at what a different moderator or Admin did. It’s just the way that large forums work, even a 7-judge Supreme Court don’t always agree. And sometimes it takes on 1 out of 7 for a ban to occur, as all mods necessarilyhave the power to unilaterally ban, as part of the workload of cleaning up plain spammers/Nigeria/scams/etc. Nature of large forums including ones I currently or historically owned/run/ran/helped too.
I would hope that long-term bans (I'm not talking about the ten-days for myself, but the one-year ban for @nfitz) would have to be approved by an admin. However, having seen how passionate a certain admin writes about sending members on "holidays", while pleas for having someone moderate a dispute went largely ignored, was why I asked for more volunteers which can step in discussions when needed (and in most cases: before they derail):
Anyways, it seems that the UT forum has become a victim of its success and that the burden of moderating and administrating this forum has become too overwhelming for the number of shoulders over which it is currently divided (and which execute their responsibilities with the best intentions). I'm unfortunately not the right person to moderate a discussion about my own employer, but if you believe that maintaining this community is worth a few hours of your time every week and that banning members should be the last resort reserved for the hopeless cases on which all other measures (such as "moderating", which is actually the activity a "moderator" is named after and may appear as surprisingly similar to parenting) have repeatedly failed rather than being your principle activity, then I wholeheartedly believe that you would be a valuable and highly complementary addition to the existing UT Forum team... :)
Or in other words: there undoubtedly are situations which warrant a ban; however, for virtually any other situations, there are moderators - and I would welcome to see more of those in our discussions (existing ones and new "recruits")...

***

Now back to the real discussions:

(to be continued in a separate post below)
 
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No wonder, that's why they ruined all the student/youth passes.
I'm still struggling to understand your criticism, which you've already detailed in a previous post:
The unlimited student pass is now limited to 50 segments and escape fares only, it was 999 segments and escape/economy fares.
Apart from people who "mine [train delays] for travel credits" ("I have an unlimited semester pass so whenever I knew my train would be delayed I cancelled my original reservation and booked a separate segment for every stop the train made. I got 65 points per segment for a 1 hour+ delay and 130 for a 4 hour+ delay."), what share of previous student pass holders do you think would have been affected by this cap?

The 6 pak used to include all economy fares, but is now limited to escape fares only.
This is only partly correct: even though a credit no longer entitles to travel for free in "Economy" fare class, it entitles to a 50% discount on "Economy" fare class:
1567995168388.png

They also introduced smaller fare zones for the student pass.
I'm not sure why this change would make the product worse: why should a student commuting between London and Toronto pay the same as someone who travels across the entire corridor?

Already know a few people who are going to move over to Greyhound (which is dreadful traveling to london).
It's always sad to see customers leave (especially young ones which have yet to make the decision of whether they want to live a car-dependent or car-free lifestyle), but to me it just shows that it is impossible to design offers which are attractive to all customer groups. You seem to believe that VIA Rail is a corporation like our Nation's flagship airline, which aims to maximise ticket revenues in order to pay out dividends which will keep its shareholders happy, or a commuter rail agency, which can sell tickets even when there is no physical space to squeeze more passengers into its trains. In reality, however, VIA Rail is a company which depends on a 69-cents-subsidy for every dollar it charges and even on the Corridor it's not much less with 47 cents on every dollar, as its revenues only cover 59% of its operating expenses network-wide and 68% on the Corridor, and which is barred by Transport Canada regulations to transport more people than it has seats for. (Note: all cost/revenue figures mentioned in this and the following paragraph can be easily calculated with the information provided on page 9 of VIA's 2018 Annual Report)

So why do these 2 differences to other types of carrier matter? The first reason is that charging certain customer groups less than the average operating costs for that particular route is not cross-subsidised by the profits made on other routes, it's subsidised by the taxpayer. Even by "mining" the system, you were perfectly entitled to 182 segments travelled at an average cost to you of only $6.09 ($1,109 divided by 182 segments), but you may want to be aware that VIA's average cost was $140.20 per passenger on its network, $99.03 on the Corridor and $69.23 on the Toronto-London-Windsor route, with the government paying $57.45, $31.65 and $20.19, respectively, for every passenger. This of course doesn't mean that the taxpayer would have saved $2,565.58 ($20.19*182-$1109) if you hadn't stepped a foot into a VIA train, as the additional costs you cause by using your pass to buy a ticket and taking a seat on board the train are of course negligible. However, the second reason is that the obligation to not "oversell" trains means that there is an opportunity cost to selling cheap tickets. Selling anyone tickets for as little as $6.09 or $9.18 ($459 divided by 50 travel credits) actually results in a revenue loss if your train sells out and someone would have been willing to pay $99 (i.e. the Economy Plus fare for Toronto-London) for a seat like the very one you are occupying.

By the way, the same goes if you use the approximately 7000 preference points you seem to have earned with late credits (9,239 points earned minus $1,109 spent times 2 points per dollar equals 7,021 preference points) for travel on trains which sell out before there departure: If you use 5500 of these points to redeem a Toronto-Winnipeg ticket in Sleeper Plus (Cabin for one) and VIA has to turn away a passenger willing to pay the full fare of $1,797 because the train is sold out, then that single "free" ticket you received will have cost VIA more than what you paid for your entire VIA travels in 12 months, but back to the unlimited Student Pass, maybe you see know why VIA tries to create incentives against having pass-holders with the lowest per-trip revenue use popular trains: because given that most students prefer to travel on weekends and thus on the same two peak afternoons (Friday and Sunday) which are among the busiest travel periods of the week, giving a 100% on Escape and Economy (or even Economy Plus) doesn't provide any incentive to avoid the busy trains which are likely to sell out, whereas giving a 100% discount on Escape fares, 50% discount on Economy and 0% on Economy Plus provides a clear incentive to travel at times which don't displace customers which are willing to pay full price.

So why should you care about VIA's need to save seats on more popular trains for passengers with a higher willingness-to-pay? Because it's ultimately in your own interest: contrary to what you may believe and what I've already shown in a recent post here to be wrong in the light of actual VIA revenue and travel data for the last 5 years, it's the timetable offerings (i.e. frequency and exact timings of the various departures), reliability (i.e. punctuality) and the quality on-board service which motivate passengers to travel by train rather than any alternative modes available (in most cases: the car). As I've pointed out in said post, a 11% increase in train-mileage between 2014 and 2018 resulted in a 25% increase in passenger volumes in the same period and a 40% increase in revenues (31%, if adjusted for inflation). However, further increases in frequency are highly unlikely given the resistance faced by the various host railways and the limited fleet size VIA is confined to operate with and neither will change unless HFR is approved and triggers the delivery of additional trainsets beyond the current fleet size. Unfortunately, this means that in order to justify the investments required for HFR, VIA has to demonstrate that an increase of the scheduled train mileage volume does not just increase ridership, but also decrease the operational deficit and this necessitates that the existing number of seats in its fleet have to transport more people each and that if there are more passengers than seats for a certain departure, passengers willing to pay more will have to be prioritised over those willing to pay less. The good news, however, is that once HFR is built and the fleet (including the 2nd batch required for HFR service) is delivered, there will be much more capacity and much more departures to choose from and this should naturally increase the scope to offer cheap tickets to certain highly price-sensitive customer groups...
 
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On topic. Can some of the HFR work be done without the full study? For example, can they start on the Ottawa-Montreal corridor now?
 
On topic. Can some of the HFR work be done without the full study? For example, can they start on the Ottawa-Montreal corridor now?

I’m speculating, but the answer maybe more pragmatic than anything.

The legal reg’s re when a federal EA is required can be found here.

Item 28 specifies two situations that are of interest:
- more than 32km of construction on a new ROW
- more than 200 km/hr

So the legalistic answer would be, an EA is not required if all VIA is doing is changing curve alignments, installing higher speed turnouts, changing out rail or ties, and surfacing to a higher standard. Or adding passing tracks and short double track sections. I don’t believe CN did an EA for all its recent double tracking out west.

There may be individual project items that do trigger an EA. For instance, rebuilding a bridge, which might impact on natural life in the watershed, might trigger some other items in the regulations.

The pragmatic answer is, there is the overriding issue of duty to consult and right to mount a legal challenge, which can be on whatever grounds a clever lawyer chooses. This would be particularly dangerous if VIA or the Pols get an urge to boast about this enabling works as a first stage of HFR. All it would take is one press release saying “this work will contribute to our grand plan to bring HFR to Ontario”..... and there would be grounds to argue “thin edge of the wedge” and failure to consult about something.

So, it’s far safer to just EA the whole thing at the beginning as one integrated package and get all the arguing over with. To be honest, I fear that there are anti-HFR groups that may yet challenge the HFR EA when it happens. I can imagine some concerned citizen group appearing, possibly with legal funds quietly provided by, say, an airline or bus line. We know what happens in this country when somebody is in a hurry to break ground, and leaves t’s uncrossed during the EA. Not everybody wants HFR. We could see atwo-year delay while some legal point is argued, even if it’s without merit and is ultimately tossed by the court.

If some basic upgrading gets done, the kind that ought to have been done in 1980, I’m not gonna protest. But better safe than sorry.

- Paul
 
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I'm still struggling to understand your criticism, which you've already detailed in a previous post:

Apart from people who "mine [train delays] for travel credits" ("I have an unlimited semester pass so whenever I knew my train would be delayed I cancelled my original reservation and booked a separate segment for every stop the train made. I got 65 points per segment for a 1 hour+ delay and 130 for a 4 hour+ delay."), what share of previous student pass holders do you think would have been affected by this cap?


This is only partly correct: even though a credit no longer entitles to travel for free in "Economy" fare class, it entitles to a 50% discount on "Economy" fare class:
View attachment 202786


I'm not sure why this change would make the product worse: why should a student commuting between London and Toronto pay the same as someone who travels across the entire corridor?


It's always sad to see customers leave (especially young ones which have yet to make the decision of whether they want to live a car-dependent or car-free lifestyle), but to me it just shows that it is impossible to design offers which are attractive to all customer groups. You seem to believe that VIA Rail is a corporation like our Nation's flagship airline, which aims to maximise ticket revenues in order to pay out dividends which will keep its shareholders happy, or a commuter rail agency, which can sell tickets even when there is no physical space to squeeze more passengers into its trains. In reality, however, VIA Rail is a company which depends on a 69-cents-subsidy for every dollar it charges and even on the Corridor it's not much less with 47 cents on every dollar, as its revenues only cover 59% of its operating expenses network-wide and 68% on the Corridor, and which is barred by Transport Canada regulations to transport more people than it has seats for. (Note: all cost/revenue figures mentioned in this and the following paragraph can be easily calculated with the information provided on page 9 of VIA's 2018 Annual Report)

So why do these 2 differences to other types of carrier matter? The first reason is that charging certain customer groups less than the average operating costs for that particular route is not cross-subsidised by the profits made on other routes, it's subsidised by the taxpayer. Even by "mining" the system, you were perfectly entitled to 182 segments travelled at an average cost to you of only $6.09 ($1,109 divided by 182 segments), but you may want to be aware that VIA's average cost was $140.20 per passenger on its network, $99.03 on the Corridor and $69.23 on the Toronto-London-Windsor route, with the government paying $57.45, $31.65 and $20.19, respectively, for every passenger. This of course doesn't mean that the taxpayer would have saved $2,565.58 ($20.19*182-$1109) if you hadn't stepped a foot into a VIA train, as the additional costs you cause by using your pass to buy a ticket and taking a seat on board the train are of course negligible. However, the second reason is that the obligation to not "oversell" trains means that there is an opportunity cost to selling cheap tickets. Selling anyone tickets for as little as $6.09 or $9.18 ($459 divided by 50 travel credits) actually results in a revenue loss if your train sells out and someone would have been willing to pay $99 (i.e. the Economy Plus fare for Toronto-London) for a seat like the very one you are occupying.

By the way, the same goes if you use the approximately 7000 preference points you seem to have earned with late credits (9,239 points earned minus $1,109 spent times 2 points per dollar equals 7,021 preference points) for travel on trains which sell out before there departure: If you use 5500 of these points to redeem a Toronto-Winnipeg ticket in Sleeper Plus (Cabin for one) and VIA has to turn away a passenger willing to pay the full fare of $1,797 because the train is sold out, then that single "free" ticket you received will have cost VIA more than what you paid for your entire VIA travels in 12 months, but back to the unlimited Student Pass, maybe you see know why VIA tries to create incentives against having pass-holders with the lowest per-trip revenue use popular trains: because given that most students prefer to travel on weekends and thus on the same two peak afternoons (Friday and Sunday) which are among the busiest travel periods of the week, giving a 100% on Escape and Economy (or even Economy Plus) doesn't provide any incentive to avoid the busy trains which are likely to sell out, whereas giving a 100% discount on Escape fares, 50% discount on Economy and 0% on Economy Plus provides a clear incentive to travel at times which don't displace customers which are willing to pay full price.

So why should you care about VIA's need to save seats on more popular trains for passengers with a higher willingness-to-pay? Because it's ultimately in your own interest: contrary to what you may believe and what I've already shown in a recent post here to be wrong in the light of actual VIA revenue and travel data for the last 5 years, it's the timetable offerings (i.e. frequency and exact timings of the various departures), reliability (i.e. punctuality) and the quality on-board service which motivate passengers to travel by train rather than any alternative modes available (in most cases: the car). As I've pointed out in said post, a 11% increase in train-mileage between 2014 and 2018 resulted in a 25% increase in passenger volumes in the same period and a 40% increase in revenues (31%, if adjusted for inflation). However, further increases in frequency are highly unlikely given the resistance faced by the various host railways and the limited fleet size VIA is confined to operate with and neither will change unless HFR is approved and triggers the delivery of additional trainsets beyond the current fleet size. Unfortunately, this means that in order to justify the investments required for HFR, VIA has to demonstrate that an increase of the scheduled train mileage volume does not just increase ridership, but also decrease the operational deficit and this necessitates that the existing number of seats in its fleet have to transport more people each and that if there are more passengers than seats for a certain departure, passengers willing to pay more will have to be prioritised over those willing to pay less. The good news, however, is that once HFR is built and the fleet (including the 2nd batch required for HFR service) is delivered, there will be much more capacity and much more departures to choose from and this should naturally increase the scope to offer cheap tickets to certain highly price-sensitive customer groups...
Screenshot_20190909-065705.jpgScreenshot_20190909-065656.jpgScreenshot_20190909-065637.jpgScreenshot_20190909-065630.jpgScreenshot_20190909-065619.jpg
It isn't just me that's affected... Also, I only actually did the late train travel credit thing once and "forgot" to request the points in time (you can check my VIA Preference history of you don't believe me, I'll PM you my card number). The vast majority of my points actually come from surveys. Around 1000 points came from travel credits (all of which were legitimate). I also bought the passes the year before and also redeemed some points so some of your calculations might be a bit off. I think what would help to solve this is if VIA allowed pass holders to book Economy Plus tickets on standby or 24 hours in advance (like the VIA employee pass). This will allow VIA to sell as many tickets as possible at a higher fare while allowing pass holders access to seats VIA can't sell. It's also something that I'd be willing to pay extra for (I think the old CanRail pass had this option). Also, it would be nice if VIA could increase the segments allowed with the pass back up to 100 or 150 (it will actually prevent someone from taking my idea seriously while allowing students to get to school).

P.S. Restricting the pass to escape fares only doesn't actually discourage students from taking busy trains, it just causes them to hold tickets for multiple trains in advance instead. Also, the $62 fares from Toronto-London used to be escape fares, now they're regular economy fares. So there are fewer tickets available to pass holders now than before.
 
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@Urban Sky Meh I'm almost glad nfitz is banned. Apart from the occasional insightful comment, he was way too prone to hysterical allegations of supposed racism and other discrimination. Always came off as a terribly cringe worthy guilty white leftist. Always found a way to drag race into the discussion. Good riddance.
 
View attachment 202839View attachment 202840View attachment 202841View attachment 202842View attachment 202843
It isn't just me that's affected... Also, I only actually did the late train travel credit thing once and "forgot" to request the points in time (you can check my VIA Preference history of you don't believe me, I'll PM you my card number). The vast majority of my points actually come from surveys. Around 1000 points came from travel credits (all of which were legitimate). I also bought the passes the year before and also redeemed some points so some of your calculations might be a bit off. I think what would help to solve this is if VIA allowed pass holders to book Economy Plus tickets on standby or 24 hours in advance (like the VIA employee pass). This will allow VIA to sell as many tickets as possible at a higher fare while allowing pass holders access to seats VIA can't sell. It's also something that I'd be willing to pay extra for (I think the old CanRail pass had this option). Also, it would be nice if VIA could increase the segments allowed with the pass back up to 100 or 150 (it will actually prevent someone from taking my idea seriously while allowing students to get to school).

P.S. Restricting the pass to escape fares only doesn't actually discourage students from taking busy trains, it just causes them to hold tickets for multiple trains in advance instead. Also, the $62 fares from Toronto-London used to be escape fares, now they're regular economy fares. So there are fewer tickets available to pass holders now than before.
Those mobile screenshots are a pain to view and scroll through. Next time, please post the link to the tweets so that the forum's tweet inline thing can display them and a link to the screenshots (in case they get deleted).
 
Those mobile screenshots are a pain to view and scroll through. Next time, please post the link to the tweets so that the forum's tweet inline thing can display them and a link to the screenshots (in case they get deleted).
Sorry about that, I posted it from my phone while on train 71 and didn't preview on a laptop beforehand.
 

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