VIA Rail

[Allandale25]

Churchill updates in two articles below.

Warm reception in Churchill for new owners of port and railway
Posted: Sep 05, 2018 5:00 AM CT

Company fixing Churchill rail line says repairs will be complete in 60 days
Posted: Sep 05, 2018 7:00 AM CT

 

[amnesiajune]

I'm afraid that one of the characteristics of Permafrost is that the ground is not very stable, which is not exactly conducive to operating trains at high speeds...

Via Rail also has a lot of sign post stops, where the train only stops if someone is waiting there. They have to travel slow enough that they can see if someone is waiting and stop for them. When there's a station or sign post every 20 km, it's hard to get going that quickly.

 

[ShonTron]

Via Rail also has a lot of sign post stops, where the train only stops if someone is waiting there. They have to travel slow enough that they can see if someone is waiting and stop for them. When there's a station or sign post every 20 km, it's hard to get going that quickly.

VIA will even stop between sign posts in remote sections (Capreol to Winnipeg, for example) if requested, but 48-hours notice is required. That ensures that any requested stop is in the train crews' orders and that the stop can be made. For listed flag stops, reservations must be made at least 40 minutes before the train departs the prior major station (Toronto, Capreol, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Jasper, or Vancouver).

This means that the train doesn't crawl when it doesn't have to.

 

[lenaitch]

VIA will even stop between sign posts in remote sections (Capreol to Winnipeg, for example) if requested, but 48-hours notice is required. That ensures that any requested stop is in the train crews' orders and that the stop can be made. For listed flag stops, reservations must be made at least 40 minutes before the train departs the prior major station (Toronto, Capreol, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Edmonton, Jasper, or Vancouver).

This means that the train doesn't crawl when it doesn't have to.

The way I read the published VIA timetables, this policy only applies to the Toronto-Vancouver service. All of the others denote flagstop as the train "stops on request when passenger is seen by train staff". This makes sense in remote areas. While it may easy to pre-book disembarking at a certain location, pre-booking a pick-up would be difficult since a number of locations on the remote lines would not have phone service. An 'on sight' policy would preclude higher speeds.

 

[steveintoronto]

Via Rail also has a lot of sign post stops, where the train only stops if someone is waiting there. They have to travel slow enough that they can see if someone is waiting and stop for them. When there's a station or sign post every 20 km, it's hard to get going that quickly.

One has to wonder if a solar panel powered radio beacon wouldn't be useful at signposts at least? Even in the dusk of winter, there should be enough solar energy to power a device:
Wind, solar energy real options for Canada's remote Arctic - CBC.ca

 

[Northern Light]

One has to wonder if a solar panel powered radio beacon wouldn't be useful at signposts at least? Even in the dusk of winter, there should be enough solar energy to power a device:
Wind, solar energy real options for Canada's remote Arctic - CBC.ca

I think it was noted above that they are discussing running fibre alongside the tracks. That implies power and communication at speed.

Using the juice to power either cellphone reception and using that for the purpose of flag stops or, installing small posts trackside (every 2km?) with simple push-button tech that would notify the train in-cab of a desired stop and where would make sense to me, once you're eating the cost of fibre anyway.

 

[steveintoronto]

Using the juice to power either cellphone reception

"Cellphone"? lol...from which towers?

I'm talking GRS. ( https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf01016.html ) And the only fibre Churchill will see for some time is from satellite feed.

GRS is a rough analog to the US "Citizen's Band". No licence needed if caveats met. Even a hand-held unit on flat terrain is good for miles of range, especially if using it 'two state' (as a beacon). A fixed base station is good for tens of miles. That should do it, and very cheaply too. I'm sure dispensation can be had from Transport Canada to use one of the railroad channels.

Stops in between two stations

On some VIA Rail routes, you can get off and on the train exactly where you want — even in places where there is no scheduled stop! The ideal solution for outdoor activities - at that little lake deep in the forest, or that wild river you've been dreaming of for so long!

To use this service, you must purchase your ticket at least 48 hours in advance and tell us the exact spot where you want the train to stop by specifying the exact mile marker at which you would like the train to stop.

Stops in between two stations can be requested on these trains only:

• Jasper-Prince Rupert
• Montréal-Jonquière
• Montréal-Senneterre
• Sudbury-White River
• Toronto-Vancouver (the Canadian) - only between Capreol and Winnipeg
• Winnipeg-Churchill

Note that we may refuse a request for a special stop if we consider that it will significantly delay the train.

https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-o...between-two-explore-our-destinations/stations

lol...I wonder how many times this has 'gone wrong'? Whoops, a moose just kicked that man into the river...

 

[dowlingm]

Depending on how much fibre capacity is proposed (and assuming it happens) cellphone tower backhaul could be operated off them, one would think? There is Bell MTS cellphone coverage along the roads up to Thompson (and LTE in Thompson itself) while some gaps between Thompson and Gillam could be closed by railside towers. In Europe, those same towers might be delivering GSM-R/successor tech communications.

 

[steveintoronto]

^At what price and for whom? Churchill is already well-served:

Churchill smartphone-friendly with launch of new wireless network
Ian Graham
Thompson Citizen

OCTOBER 17, 2014 02:44 PM

Churchill residents have access to the latest smartphones and visitors to their community will be able to use their phones from abroad now that MTS has expanded its 4G HSPA wireless network to Manitoba’s whale- and polar bear-watching destination.
[...]
The 4G HSPA wireless network is MTS’s base 4G service and provides downloading speeds up to 21 megabits per second.
[...]
Churchill joins Snow Lake and Ebb & Flow First Nation as communities in Manitoba that have been upgraded to 4G HSPA service in 2014. The next communities on the list are Bissett, Middleboro and Fisher River First Nation.

https://www.thompsoncitizen.net/new...with-launch-of-new-wireless-network-1.1431217

Installing fibre through 400+ miles of muskeg? When Churchill is already well connected? Why?

If connectivity is so important for the passengers, perhaps they're travelling to the wrong destination? Or they can pay for a satellite up-link and wi-fi connect on the train.

For those wishing to "flag down" a train. a radio beacon, low power is all you need, perhaps 5-10 watts antenna input, digitally encoded AM (or pulse modulation, due to being interference immune) is all you need. Confirmation of receipt is included in the xmssn packet. The crew would have at least half an hour's notice to start slowing.

And that will cost, errr...about a hundred bucks, and fifty more for the photocell array pwr supply. So maybe a hundred 'posts' along the line? $15,000.

That won't even buy a kilometer of fibre. Get the line working, and call it a day, a good one.

And btw, for "100 posts" that would be one roughly every 4 mi. They could be 'daisy-chain relayed' to retransmit a digital burst the length of the rail line, with more than enough range to hop over any defective units, for emergency alerts along the line if no other means of communication is possible. And if that isn't enough to serve the hundred or so people between The Pas and Churchill, every fifth post or so could have a satellite uplink. That's about a hundred bucks times 20...another $2000...

 

[dowlingm]

@steveintoronto you will note first of all that I didn’t mention anything north of Gillam, just south/west where wireless networks along the roads are extant, and rail towers in between would reinforce that as part of rural development. But end to end LTE-R would replace the need to maintain existing engineer-RTC/company radio transmission infrastructure and give option for telemetry bandwidth (not to mention wifi on lower priority basis for those already on the train).

 

[steveintoronto]

@steveintoronto you will note first of all that I didn’t mention anything north of Gillam, just south/west where wireless networks along the roads are extant, and rail towers in between would reinforce that as part of rural development. But end to end LTE-R would replace the need to maintain existing engineer-RTC/company radio transmission infrastructure and give option for telemetry bandwidth (not to mention wifi on lower priority basis for those already on the train).

Fibre has been mentioned by several posters, apparently in reference to it being mentioned by 'the consortium'.

I just can't see the need as per cost, and so many cheaper and vastly less maintenance intensive ways of doing it. There used to be telegraph wires at one time:

- :Yet There Isn't a Train I Wouldn't Take: Railway Journeys
By William D. Middleton

Quite a few hits for it on Google. As for onboard wi-fi, VIA can and does use satellite transceivers.

News releases

ALL ABOARD! - Bell Canada extends Wi-Fi pilot to VIA Rail Canada trains

For the first time in North America, mobile WLAN Internet connectivity is
available on a pilot basis to train passengers
TORONTO,July 9 2003 --Bell Canada today announced the extension of the AccessZone(R) Wi-Fi hotspot pilot service to select VIA Rail train cars. During the four month pilot which starts today, Bell Canada will equip select VIA 1 train cars with wireless Internet access that will provide free wireless local area network ("WLAN"), based on the 802.11b Wi-Fi technology standard, for VIA 1 passengers traveling between Montréal and Toronto. This provides mobile professionals, business travelers and consumers with 802.11b enabled laptops or handheld devices another convenient option to wirelessly access the Internet, e-mail and corporate networks while traveling on the train.
For the first time in North America, mobile WLAN connectivity, using combined satellite and wireless networks, will be available within a moving passenger train car. The pilot service combines the strengths of Bell technologies, including Bell ExpressVu's satellite service, Bell Mobility's 1X next generation wireless network and Bell's nationwide data network, with support from chip manufacturer and Wi-Fi industry leader Intel Corporation and wireless technology developed by Ottawa-based PointShot Wireless. Here is how it works: the Internet is transmitted "down" to the train from Bell ExpressVu's Internet satellite service to onboard equipment and then to the end-user's WLAN-enabled device. Responses from the end-user's device are then transmitted back "up" to the train's WLAN equipment and then delivered over Bell Mobility's 1X network to the Internet.
"Today's announcement is another example of Bell's commitment to meeting the evolving needs of mobile professionals and business travelers who are increasingly using wireless technologies for Internet access while away from home or the office," said Almis Ledas, Vice-President corporate development, Bell Mobility. "This service is a clear demonstration of Bell's ability to align its resources namely satellite, wireless and wired data networks, with innovative companies like Intel and PointShot Wireless to create a 4-month pilot service that will provide train passengers with WLAN real-time on-board access."
[...]

http://www.bce.ca/news-and-media/re...extends-wi-fi-pilot-to-via-rail-canada-trains

Satellite Internet
Trains High and Low Speed

[...]
Operator:

With Broadband service NASSAT rail operator can manage dedicated railway applications such as traffic updates last minute ticketing and real-time management of traffic disruptions.
With independent and secure wireless internet connectivity, real-time information and online payments can be sent and received by shipboard personnel through their Wi-Fi enabled PDA or Smartphone.

Monitoring and Maintenance
Real time tracking Internet Service NASSAT. The Internet service management and constant monitoring is guaranteed by the Operations Center (NOC) NASSAT. The NOC continuously monitors each component of train equipment, including communication sub-system of satellites, Wi-Fi and UMTS modems, routers, servers and access points.
A comprehensive alert system notifies our Monitoring Team identified technical problems on trains, the combination of Internet connectivity with GSM remote control system when the satellite link is available. The NOC also collects usage statistics and detailed records of the operation of all major components of the train.

Installation and maintenance of the system NASSAT: NASSAT has gained considerable experience in working with train operators. Maintaining NASSAT solutions is based on the following principles:

• Maximizing remote interventions to minimize physical interventions on trains
• Include physical interventions within the normal maintenance schedule of trains
• Collaborate with technical train, including training and ongoing monitoring of the use of dedicated equipment NASSAT

Architecture

[...]
The architecture of this system supports multiple connectivity technologies - satellite, cellular, wireless high-speed environment and antennas for Wi-Fi stations and reservoirs - and can add traffic over various technologies and different media, dynamically adjusting the performance for each channel according to the capacity available as cost basis, the algorithm is aware of the location.
[...]

https://en.nassat.com/products/Trains/

 

[lenaitch]

Jeez folks. Let's get the line up and running first; the bells and whistles can wait. I'm sure the folks in Churchill will be thrilled when trains start showing up; whether they are an hour or so late because it had to stop and load a moose along the way I doubt will be of big concern to them. I note that the on-board Wi-Fi was a pilot and between Montreal and Toronto only. Did it get implemented on a wider scale. There must be a cost to Via - would such a thing be a wise expenditure of scarce funds on a remote service line. Dunno. ONTC has implemented Wi-Fi on their buses but not on the Polar Bear train.

 

[steveintoronto]

Jeez folks. Let's get the line up and running first; the bells and whistles can wait. I'm sure the folks in Churchill will be thrilled when trains start showing up; whether they are an hour or so late because it had to stop and load a moose along the way I doubt will be of big concern to them. I note that the on-board Wi-Fi was a pilot and between Montreal and Toronto only. Did it get implemented on a wider scale. There must be a cost to Via - would such a thing be a wise expenditure of scarce funds on a remote service line. Dunno. ONTC has implemented Wi-Fi on their buses but not on the Polar Bear train.

You can see the dishes on the LRC coach stock on the Corridor runs. Whether it's in use elsewhere is a good question, but VIA obviously have the technical staff (or outsource) and know-how of how to do this. Being dish means it's satellite. Cost to VIA is a given, at least on the Corridor run. In the case of Churchill, there might be allowance from the province to cover it, since the province is promoting remote connectivity, even if it's passengers on a train in their jurisdiction.

The cost of onboard satellite connection will be a *fraction* of running fibre 400 miles + through highly inhospitable and virtually unpopulated terrain. Tough enough job getting the track stable. Radios are incredibly cheap, and the tech for the price surprisingly affordable.

 

[dowlingm]

My recollection is that VIA switched to cellular networks some years ago - when Nomad got the contract? - the latency when it was satellite used to make it impossible to connect over VPN. They may still use it for bulk downloads to the onboard entertainment system I guess. My point was merely that a government directed/funded rollout of LTE-R or 5G-R across Canada (not merely this route) could be a way for rail to bring tangible benefits to the industry, to rail users and to adjacent communications-poor communities.

 

[Urban Sky]

My point was merely that a government directed/funded rollout of LTE-R or 5G-R across Canada (not merely this route) could be a way for rail to bring tangible benefits to the industry, to rail users and to adjacent communications-poor communities.

The demand is certainly there and the market failure in meeting it has even caught the eye of Al-Jazeera:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/free-wifi-maskwacis-alberta-1.4181787
https://www.aljazeera.com/programme...ng-canada-digital-divide-170614123247706.html

Case in point: Maskwacis/AB is located along the CP line linking Edmonton and Calgary (via Red Deer)...