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VIA Rail

^ I wonder if the timing of delivery by Spring 2022 means the contract would be signed before the 2019 election. Two years and a bit sounds like the time needed to build the rolling stock? Just guessing here. Other may have a better understanding.
 
cplchanb said:
Is there anyone here apart from me that thinks the Canadian should be split into separate trains? Right now the train as you said can run almost a day late at times. if the service is split at lets say winnipeg, I would imagine that they can run more reliably and more frequently.

Then again, maybe Via can split into different geographical entities so that each region can manage their resources independently and wont be tied up by problems from the other side of the country such as JR East, West, Central etc....
Click to expand...
Best case for VIA would be to add service from Edmonton-Vancouver because that's where the highest yield is.
 
cplchanb said:
so all in all nothing new that we dont already know and just another chance for a photo op..... typical govt bs....
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No. This is actual confirmation that expenditures for a new fleet are approved by the government, and VIA can go ahead with the procurement process. That's the biggest amount of good news for VIA Rail since the Chretien era.
 
Apparently VIA updated their "Fleet Renewal Program" page today. Here's the text of it.

THE PROGRAM

VIA Rail is excited to confirm that following the Federal Budget 2018 it will acquire a new train fleet to replace the current rolling stock operating within the Québec City – Windsor corridor, which serves the majority of our passengers. It is expected that by 2022, we will be welcoming Canadians on board a brand new set of trains. Our current fleet, reaching the end of its useful life, has served us well over the past 35 years, but it is now time to modernize ensuring safer, faster, more frequent, more accessible and an environmentally-friendly service. With the introduction of new trains, VIA Rail can offer a better travel experience with more comfortable cars that are better adapted and more accessible to people with reduced mobility – not to mention greener. All aboard!

BENEFITS OF THE FLEET RENEWAL PROGRAM
  1. Improving the customer experience: Modern trainsets will provide better amenities and improved comfort for travellers.
  2. Improving accessibility: New trainsets will provide Universal Accessibility to all Canadians and their caretakers. The new fleet will allow VIA Rail to remain the most accessible mode of transportation.
  3. Reducing environmental impact: Engines with the latest technology will be more fuel-efficient resulting in air quality improvements and a reduced environmental impact of four to five times less pollution than cars or other modes of transportation.
  4. Increasing operating efficiencies: Bi-directional trains will allow for more efficient use of our fleet, optimize operating costs and provide more capacity for passengers.
  5. Ensuring customer safety: New trains will be designed to continue to meet or exceed the latest safety standards.

PURCHASING PROCESS
  • VIA Rail intends to proceed with its new fleet procurement through a request for proposals and will ensure, as is the case in its day-to-day business practices, that a fair, open and transparent bidding structure and process is in place.
  • The call for proposals will be placed on the MERX system and will be open and accessible to all qualified companies wishing to make a proposal.
  • The procurement process will comply with the highest industry standards and regulations, including provisions outlined in international trade agreements.
  • An independent Fairness Monitor will follow the entire procurement process.


KEY FLEET REQUIREMENTS

VIA Rail is looking to procure a new fleet that meets the following criteria through its fleet renewal process:
  • 9,100 passenger seats, provided by 32 bi-directional trainsets to replace the cars and locomotives in service along the Québec City-Windsor corridor.
  • Enhanced Universal Accessibility features for passengers with reduced mobility, including multiple accommodations for wheelchairs and other mobility devices on the trains.
  • More fuel-efficient, Tier 4 Diesel engines, with the option to operate on electrified rail infrastructure as it becomes available.
  • Capability of trainsets to operate in either direction (push-pull) to reduce the turnaround time for trains at stations in urban centres, thereby reducing operating costs.
Click to expand...
 
What are the likely contenders for this fleet? Something off the shelf I would think in this time frame.
 
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So what about FRA/TC regulations? Does that mean they are going to be waived?

One step closer...
Winterlandschaft.jpg


I do wonder if the elimination of a minimum Canadian content was proposed by Siemens? Perhaps they are facing some manufacturing capacity restraints in the US at the moment and planned to have the trains and carriages made in Europe? Or maybe it was Stadler. Is the short time frame considered normal for replacing rolling stock? Based on the estimation date it almost seems that they are trying to get CRRC into the game by allow them to build everything in China and then ship.
 
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yrt+viva=1system said:
I do wonder if the elimination of a minimum Canadian content was proposed by Siemens?
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It's not based on a particular corporate interest, it's based on Canada standing tall in trade agreements by being fair and open. If anyone, it's a message to Trump. The unwritten/unstated part is "F with us, and you'll lose as much or more". Canada just called the US' bluff on the automotive sector re Nafta.
U.S. drops auto-content proposal in NAFTA talks - The Globe and Mail
March 20, 2018, 10:13:00 PM EDT By Reuters
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/us-d...afta-talks--the-globe-and-mail-20180320-01406

And yes, CRRC will have an equal shot at this, caveats of China's playing the game by the rules. That means reciprocity.

Another unwritten/unstated aspect as that pertains to Siemens is that if the US does erect trade barriers, Siemens can certainly win the contract if the conditions are the most preferable, but they have to be supplied from the EU as by CETA, zero....*ZERO* tariffs are applied going in either direction for rail and associated equipment. I posted the chapter a week or so ago in this string.

Canada wouldn't be paying more if it came from the CA plant, perhaps even less, but *in the long term*...Canada would be paying far more in terms of it being one-way trade. We have to affect the CETA option with the EU to invest in further trade benefit if Nafta is broken.

yrt+viva=1system said:
Perhaps they are facing some manufacturing capacity restraints in the US at the moment and planned to have the trains and carriages made in Europe? Or maybe it was Stadler.
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See above. Whether the trade compliant clause is explicit or just implied, a rider is in effect either way. And this is as it should be.

What's also implied to US corporations is "keep the idiot POTUS on a leash, or we'll all be playing without you". No-one is more horrified of Trump's moron moves on trade than USA Incorporated.

Credit to the Libs (with the support of all the parties) for holding the line on this stance.
yrt+viva=1system said:
So what about FRA/TC regulations? Does that mean they are going to be waived?
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Something's got to change, and in a big way. It is very much in Canada's industrial and trade interests to recognize and approve EU rail safety standards and specs. And/or UIC ones.

I'll dig later for the specifics stated in CETA (it is the most comprehensive trade agreement of its kind ever) but this will suffice for now:
"All Canadian products entering the EUmarket will have to comply in full with all EU standards (such as those on food and product safety), and vice versa."
Guide to the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA)
 
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steveintoronto said:
It's not based on a particular corporate interest, it's based on Canada standing tall in trade agreements by being fair and open. If anyone, it's a message to Trump. The unwritten/unstated part is "F with us, and you'll lose as much or more".
Click to expand...

Canadians would never talk like that. We would be more, “Look, here’s the thing. We protected our national railcar builder, and now they can’t deliver streetcars on time, and they lie about their delivery schedules, and they constantly hold us hostage for aerospace subsidies, to the point where we can’t make the damn planes anyways and had to sell everything that mattered to Airbus”. Hardly the model of success, power and swagger that would catch Trump’s attention.

But yeah, we are caught by having to keep our position consistent right now. Even though there have always been bilateral local content rules in railcar procurement, NAFTA or not. We do want foreign builders to place serious bids, and we might actually favour their products.

The VIA procurement is large enough to have political implications in the USA. Communities like Elmira, Hornell, and even San Francisco will care about landing an order of this size. I’m sure it will be dangled productively by our NAFTA negotiators. But the concern that the one predictable Canadian product may not have the mojo to do this job, and already has a sense of entitlement about the order, is also material. This message is for them.

- Paul
 
^I think a precedent, albeit for a different rationale, was set by CPDQ's decision to snub BBD for REM, and go with Alstom. It was a bit of spite Peter to pay Paul, as they own a share of Alstom as well as a large chunk of BBD Rail. It's a sign of maturity that such happened though.

Where we've seen "buy domestic" of late has mostly been provincial, where exceptions were written into trade agreements previously. I'm surprised more was written in the press on that aspect. Maybe more will be with the VIA acquisition.

It is exciting to know that the choice will be based on 'what's best for VIA'...fingers crossed...*ostensibly*. It might yet be weaponized...
 
KevinT said:
Because the US just knows SO MUCH about building high speed trains. Lol...
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It's beyond ludicrous, and rather than my quoting the FT, here it is from CNBC:
[...]
In the Senate Finance Committee on Thursday before Trump's announcement, Lighthizer outlined the Chinese products that will be subject to the new tariffs, including aeronautics, modern rail, new-energy vehicles and high-tech products.[...]
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/22/tru...tariffs-over-intellectual-property-theft.html

"modern rail". All I can think reading what I am is "unintended consequences"...not least blocking inward Chinese investment. This might be a God-send for Canada, but it is volatile, and could move in any number of directions.

Will it impact some bids for VIA Fleet Renewal? I suspect it will, a lot depending on whether CRRC decides to expand here in lieu of the US. They're already highly invested there. Trump doesn't seem to have a clue. Huge surprise there...

Addendum: The point I make above is made here:
Globe and Mail
BARRIE MCKENNA
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED MARCH 22, 2018UPDATED 1 HOUR AGO

Maybe there is a silver lining for Canada in the escalating U.S.-China trade imbroglio.

The steep tariffs on Chinese products, announced on Thursday by U.S. President Donald Trump, could give some Canadian companies a competitive edge in the U.S. market, particularly in targeted industries such as clothing, aerospace and rail cars. And if China hits back with protectionist measures of its own – on soybeans, perhaps – Canadian farmers could similarly make inroads in the tough Chinese market.

Some Chinese manufacturers might even invest more money in Canada, seeing it as a way to skirt the US$60-billion in tariffs to be imposed on their products. [...]
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...mage-in-a-us-china-trade-war/article38332899/
 
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