VIA Rail

[waterloowarrior]

that disclaimer has been in VIA rail documentation before Trudeau was in office
https://canada.constructconnect.com...ise-3-billion-for-track-construction-1008331w
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/QA-APM2015_FINAL_EN.pdf

 

[crs1026]

Did anyone ever manage to get Ottawa to release those HFR studies ?

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Did anyone ever manage to get Ottawa to release those HFR studies ?

- Paul

I've requested comment from the Globe and Mail. They may have reason to withhold the answer for a pending story, if there is one.

Addendum: Got a very quick reply from G&M:
"Sadly but not unexpectedly, they refused to disclose anything". Have to leave it at that for now, albeit there might be more details forthcoming on exactly who refused the request.

Further Addendum: The Ministry.

Meantime:

news
Highest revenue month on record for VIA Rail Canada
A 12 per cent increase compared to 2016 brings VIA Rail Canada 1.2 million passengers in the third quarter…

VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) published its third quarter results of 2017 revealing their ridership had increased by 11.7 per cent compared to the same period in 2016, while revenues increased by 13.9 per cent, including a passenger revenue increase of 14.8 per cent. With more travellers aboard, a total of 296 million miles were journeyed on VIA Rail trains across the country over the quarter; up 15 per cent from 2016.

“Another successful quarter at VIA Rail with several impressive achievements, including our 14th consecutive quarter of revenue growth and our 7th consecutive quarter of ridership growth — both increasing by double digits compared to last year” said VIA Rail’s President and CEO, Yves Desjardins-Siciliano.

In August, VIA Rail posted record passenger revenues of close to $38 million, which is the highest revenue month on record. Over Labour Day weekend double-digit growth was experienced compared to last year.

In the Québec City – Windsor corridor’s on-time performance (OTP) decreased for the third consecutive quarter and now is down to 71 per cent. The Ocean’s OTP reached 86 per cent, while its Western service, the Canadian, was challenged by significant increase of freight traffic resulting in very few trains meeting their scheduled arrival times.

However VIA Rail’s overall OTP of 70 per cent compared with 69 per cent during 2016’s third quarter shows improvement.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/64746/via-rail-canada-increases/

 

[kEiThZ]

that disclaimer has been in VIA rail documentation before Trudeau was in office
https://canada.constructconnect.com...ise-3-billion-for-track-construction-1008331w
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/About_VIA/QA-APM2015_FINAL_EN.pdf

Sure. But we've not seen anything substantial from the government (not VIA itself) here. No commitment or announcement beyond the 3 year $3 million study. What a joke. The whole reason I voted for this government is because they said they'd put money into infrastructure. And you'd think the federal government would prioritize a federally operated inter-provincial service.

 

[Allandale25]

If you'd been following the start of this latest sub-string, reading back a page would help a lot, it's about potential replacements for the Budd RDCs.

In Canada, there are none. And the situation is ridiculous. There are many *excellent* choices that could be made, but Transport Canada, unlike the US FRA, refuses to be flexible or accommodating in allowing ways and means to facilitate sourcing those many excellent choices.

So VIA is stuck with Budd RDCs well over fifty years old in many cases. They are excellent workhorses, so are DC3s for aircraft. But they are far from what is needed in a modern world.
Wrong.

1. Given how many long posts you're doing and how defensive you are, it can be difficult to see what the actual topic is about.

2. VIA needs lot of new equipment. If they get the funding they could run a RFQ and RFP process to get interest from any manufacturers. TC could change things or could not. Given how slow the government has been on the HFR proposal, we'll probably have to wait a long time to see various equipment proposals or options.

 

[dowlingm]

@Allandale25

If they get the funding they could run a RFQ and RFP process to get interest from any manufacturers. TC could change things or could not. Given how slow the government has been on the HFR proposal, we'll probably have to wait a long time to see various equipment proposals or options.

VIA put a Corridor equipment Request to manufacturers pretty recently specifying compliance with existing standards.

Were I to want to implement European norms into Canadian railroading, I would be more concerned about seeing changes in access rules where railroad owners would be obliged to publish network statements and provide access to other train operators under a regulated scheme. http://ppp.worldbank.org/public-private-partnership/track-access-agreements-european-union-0

 

[crs1026]

Given how slow the government has been on the HFR proposal, we'll probably have to wait a long time to see various equipment proposals or options.

Ottawa's silence (about VIA, and about the infrastructure funding also) is making me increasingly pessimistic on the whole VIA front, period.

I wonder if it's just easier for Ottawa to funnel money into municipal/regional transit than address VIA at all. If you pony up matching funds for local projects, you get indirect strokes from the local pols - since the money goes to projects are things they are already talking positively about (generally, they will describe them as "desperately needing"). You look like a team player. Whereas, if you take the same money and put it into VIA, you are spending it on something that the locals may not have assigned as high a priority, and you appear to have taken the money out of a fixed pot that would otherwise be distributed to cities and provinces. And, there is nothing for local pols to take any credit for.

There is also no up side to Ottawa wading into the competing use arguments. Such as which project to use the Montreal tunnel for. If Montreal and Quebec aren't asking for VIA to take action on the tunnel, then why invite the debate. Similarly, why wade into the Toronto- London HSR thing when the provincial parties are vying to be the lightning rod for that?

I suspect Ottawa knows that the argument about how running HFR and still keeping good local service on the Lakeshore line is pretty flimsy, given that "no more subsidy" is an intractable part of the HFR pitch. No up side to bringing that issue on.

Consider what Ottawa would invite if they pushed CN to play nicer with VIA. CN is choking on traffic in Western Canada. The solution to the western traffic thing will likely be things like relaying the (once laid, then pulled up) double track through the National Parks in Alberta/BC. And across other districts with outstanding native land challenges. Does Ottawa want to put pressure on CN to add track, and invite the backlash that will create? Heck, no. They will wait until CN comes to them on bended knee for relief from a "crisis". That may sound like a separate and distant issue, but anything Ottawa asks of CN with respect to VIA in the Corridor will invite the response of "OK, but we need you to support us on track out west". Even supporting Ontario on use of the Halton Sub drags Ottawa towards that.

Consider that there is no Canadian builder available other than Bombardier. The likely low bidder to an RFP would possibly be Siemens in California (if they have the capacity) or the Viewliner builder in Hornell NY (again, if they can produce the product). Giving business to the US in the middle of the NAFTA dispute? More money to the Bomb, when they can't deliver trams to Ontario? So many no-win possibilities for Ottawa.

So, Ottawa will not be answering the phone for VIA anytime soon. VIA's fleet will shrink and any 'crisis' will be swept under the carpet. "Yes, but we are building a transit hub at Pearson and adding gates to support regional air service." Less fleet, less revenue; less revenue, more subsidy. A downward spiral.

I really hope I'm wrong on this.

- Paul

 

[lead82]

Via has been too focused on HFR and has neglected its long promise to improve service in SWO. There are no new trains or extra service. They don’t need the governments help with this. VIA needs to drop its fares and go back to being a train operator and not an airline. I was on a train last week to London and the cost was an absurd -$150 round trip. Similarly business class was $200. Ridiculous price for the distance. I would have drove but it was a business trip and the risk of driving with possible storm coming was high. Train was convenient but the service in Economy class is terrible. The seats and trays were in bad shape and dirty.

On the way back the train was half empty yet VIA was selling tickets for a ridiculous $70 for one way! Had the price been $20, the train would be full for almost no additional cost to VIA.

Sadly with no federal announcement, I predict that VIA will be let to just die out. It has marginal usage and few will care about its disappearance. The provinces may try to take over some of the routes and others will just die. The remote routes can just be replaced with subsidized air service as it’s probably cheaper than maintaining the track through remote areas with sparse population like Churchill.

 

[dowlingm]

Consider that there is no Canadian builder available other than Bombardier. The likely low bidder to an RFP would possibly be Siemens in California (if they have the capacity) or the Viewliner builder in Hornell NY (again, if they can produce the product). Giving business to the US in the middle of the NAFTA dispute? More money to the Bomb, when they can't deliver trams to Ontario? So many no-win possibilities for Ottawa.

CAF are in Elmira - Hornell is Alstom (and Plattsburgh is Bombardier)

one possibility would be for Siemens to ship kits of Chargers and Viaggio Comfort to Alstom Quebec for local assembly. CRRC's foothold in Moncton could potentially do likewise.

 

[Allandale25]

@Allandale25 VIA put a Corridor equipment Request to manufacturers pretty recently specifying compliance with existing standards.

Cool. Thanks for the update.

 

[robmausser]

Via has been too focused on HFR and has neglected its long promise to improve service in SWO. There are no new trains or extra service. They don’t need the governments help with this. VIA needs to drop its fares and go back to being a train operator and not an airline. I was on a train last week to London and the cost was an absurd -$150 round trip. Similarly business class was $200. Ridiculous price for the distance. I would have drove but it was a business trip and the risk of driving with possible storm coming was high. Train was convenient but the service in Economy class is terrible. The seats and trays were in bad shape and dirty.

On the way back the train was half empty yet VIA was selling tickets for a ridiculous $70 for one way! Had the price been $20, the train would be full for almost no additional cost to VIA.

Sadly with no federal announcement, I predict that VIA will be let to just die out. It has marginal usage and few will care about its disappearance. The provinces may try to take over some of the routes and others will just die. The remote routes can just be replaced with subsidized air service as it’s probably cheaper than maintaining the track through remote areas with sparse population like Churchill.

Weird, I constantly do Toronto to London for like $25 one way.

You have to buy in advance though.

 

[JasonParis]

Toronto-London was $32 today until two days ago.

 

[steveintoronto]

Were I to want to implement European norms into Canadian railroading, I would be more concerned about seeing changes in access rules where railroad owners would be obliged to publish network statements and provide access to other train operators under a regulated scheme. http://ppp.worldbank.org/public-private-partnership/track-access-agreements-european-union-0

That's a whole other interesting line of debate, and more relevant than many might think.

Do I see the arrival of such an operator? Yes, sooner than many think, albeit I suspect they'll offer a lease to VIA first to run *on* the infrastructure, and to other secondary leasees, like Metrolinx, MOOSE and the like. And perhaps a private operator to compete with VIA, or in the case of lack of financing from the Feds, the RoW builder/owner run their own operation.

Further projection? Said owner and builder is from offshore and either in partnership or the buyer of BBD Rail's Cdn operations, the European ones being sold off to the European consortiums.

Fantastic?

TORONTO (Reuters) - Bombardier Inc (BBDb.TO) should look at all options for its transportation business including partnering with China’s state-owned CRRC (601766.SS), one of Bombardier’s biggest shareholders said on Wednesday. [...]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...eal-with-chinas-crrc-caisse-ceo-idUSKBN1D15NP

Ottawa's silence (about VIA, and about the infrastructure funding also) is making me increasingly pessimistic on the whole VIA front, period.

Yeah...although I'm assured that the Infrabank is about to make an announcement, (For their new CEO and more) but the gossip behind the scenes, according to a Risk Manager friend who heads his department for one of the Ontario funds, which confirms my emerging realization, is that the "big money" will tell InfraBank to 'get lost'. If it's worth doing, who wants the Gov't calling the shots for their measly 20%? Whether Cdns agree with that or not, the fact is they want inward investment for infrastructure. And it's coming, but on the investors' terms, not the Govt's.

Consider that there is no Canadian builder available other than Bombardier. The likely low bidder to an RFP would possibly be Siemens in California (if they have the capacity) or the Viewliner builder in Hornell NY (again, if they can produce the product). Giving business to the US in the middle of the NAFTA dispute? More money to the Bomb, when they can't deliver trams to Ontario? So many no-win possibilities for Ottawa.

I'm informed that VIA did receive a number of bids to their RFQ 'fair' in Montreal some months back. As to who they were and whether the bids were reasonable, let alone TC compliant is another question. I don't see how they could be TC compliant with the specs needed stating "Bi-Mode". Even though BBD have the ALP-45DP, the RFQ was for "trainsets"....if @Urban Sky could add any clarity to that, most grateful. In fairness, his hands may be tied on commenting on it.

Ottawa will not be answering the phone for VIA anytime soon.

Yeah, but they might be forced to. Even though Trudeau's Great Adventure in China came up short, they made great 'hey' of this:
Ottawa holds up venture capital deal to highlight benefits of Beijing ties
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ght-benefits-of-beijing-ties/article37273401/

It's hard to know who owns the tail wagging the dog, but the dog is a Chow.

VIA's fleet will shrink and any 'crisis' will be swept under the carpet.

Trudeau certainly is setting himself up for a TKO. When the Chinese make the offer to build HFR, what's Ottawa going to say? "No"? It's become absurd.

Via has been too focused on HFR and has neglected its long promise to improve service in SWO.

It has nothing to do with HFR. That always was touted to be P3. Where's Ottawa on the Fleet Renewal?

They don’t need the governments help with this.

Sadly with no federal announcement, I predict that VIA will be let to just die out.

You just fully contradicted yourself there.

Let's make clear the two realities that VIA must deal with: The profitable Windsor/Quebec Corridor, and the unprofitable rest. How would you vote to the sell-off of the profitable corridor to private enterprise? I'm sanguine on it. Something's got to give, and I can assure you that not only is HFR being eyed from abroad, but so is Desjardins-Siciliano. Even with 'all the baggage' VIA made a record profit last quarter. Is Ottawa off its collective rocker? Quite possibly.

An offer will be made, and then watch the howls of outrage....

1. Given how many long posts you're doing and how defensive you are, it can be difficult to see what the actual topic is about.

Well you see Allandale, some just post nasty little comments like "Bullshit", and rather than my upping the ante, since persons like yourself don't research the facts, I have to post it myself. Fully referenced and itemized.

Sorry if everything in the world isn't as simple as a few sentences.

 

[steveintoronto]

CAF are in Elmira - Hornell is Alstom (and Plattsburgh is Bombardier)

one possibility would be for Siemens to ship kits of Chargers and Viaggio Comfort to Alstom Quebec for local assembly. CRRC's foothold in Moncton could potentially do likewise.

Absolutely, but TC has yet to approve any of the locos. Transport Canada had better shift gears fast, or they'll be forced to. I think the sell-off of BBD Rail (sector of their Transportation Division) will force it, or Canada is going to be left...well...where it already is. In the past. I think CRRC buying Thunder Bay facility would be highly encouraged by the Ont Libs for the purpose of building "higher speed" as well as "High Speed" trains for the theoretical HSR. In practice, it will be folded in with HFR, I'm sure. CRRC have any models conceivable already available and exportable in kit form.

Dowling, RE: PUBLIC-PRIVATE-PARTNERSHIP IN INFRASTRUCTURE RESOURCE CENTER as per your link. This of course revolutionized the way rail service was provided in the EU, but oddly, *most* of this gist already exists in the Canada Transportation Act, Relocations Act and Railway Act, etc.

This is the basis of application to the CTA that MOOSE Rail is pursuing. As the law now stands, GO Rail, for instance, must host a competitor if the CTA approves their application as compliant, or any other federally regulated railway. The "federally regulated" aspect does get complicated though, as GO Rail is incorporated under provincial law, but regulated federally. Costs will be assigned to the competitor by the Agency or the Minister if consultations don't produce a suitable agreement to both parties.

None-the-less, VIA is federal in almost all aspects (save for stretches like the Moosonee Railway, which is Manitoban), and this just might come up as a topic soon.

Addendum: My apologies on stating "RFQ" for VIA. Other posters had it right with "RFP". Can't find VIA's page at the moment, but here's the reported details:

IRJ at InnoTrans 2016: CANADIAN inter-city passenger operator Via Rail is moving forward with preparations to procure a new fleet of bi-mode (diesel and electric) trains as part of its $C 4bn plan to upgrade the Toronto – Ottawa – Montreal corridor.

CEO Mr Yves Desjardins-Siciliano told IRJ at InnoTrans on September 21 that Via Rail is seeking to acquire a proven design that is “in production or in use today,” with the first trains due to enter service by 2020.

“We’re looking for an established solution that meets Canadian requirements and is capable of operating in temperatures of between -40 and +40oC,” Desjardins-Siciliano says.
Via Rail plans a minimum order for between 32 and 48 trains, providing a total 10,000-14,000 seats.

The Canadian government is expected to make a decision on the funding structure for the Toronto – Montreal project by March, which will determine the procurement timeline and fleet composition. Tendering could begin as early as March or April 2017.

In March this year the federal budget allocated Via Rail $C 7.7m in the current financial year to fund pre-procurement activities for new rolling stock, level crossing safety enhancements, and station security. This will enable Via Rail to take the rolling stock project to the Request for Proposals (RFQ) stage.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/north-america/via-rail-prepares-to-order-new-trains.html

 

[Allandale25]

Well you see Allandale, some just post nasty little comments like "Bullshit", and rather than my upping the ante, since persons like yourself don't research the facts, I have to post it myself. Fully referenced and itemized.

Don't research the facts? Not sure what you're talking about but stay classy as always, Steve.