VIA Rail

[kEiThZ]

If HFR doesn't happen I have no idea what the future is for VIA.

As least for me personally, I know, I'm going to reconsider a Tesla with Autopilot if they don't come through with HFR. As it stands, VIA is both inconvenient and expensive now that I have a wife and kid. The attraction to HFR was as much friendlier pricing as a more reliable and faster schedule.

 

[steveintoronto]

I've not yet digested this, but it appears to be huge, I reserve further comment until I've analyzed this and additional reporting:

Ottawa to Inject $ 1.3 Billion into Montreal's REM

Model of the South Shore Terminal Station Photo: Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec


EXCLUSIVE - Radio-Canada has learned that the federal government will spend $ 1.283 billion on the metropolitan power grid (EMN). Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will make the announcement Thursday in Montreal, along with Prime Minister Philippe Couillard, Mayor Denis Coderre and the head of the Caisse de depot et placement du Québec (CDPQ), Michael Sabia.

A text by Sébastien Bovet, Philippe-Vincent Foisy and Raphaël Bouvier-Auclair

Ottawa will finally pay the amounts requested by Quebec for the REM project , whose bill is estimated at $ 5.9 billion. The CDPQ plans to inject $ 3 billion through its subsidiary CDPQ Infra, while the Couillard government has budgeted $ 1.28 billion in its latest budget , representing 24.5% of the total cost of the project. Quebec had asked for an equivalent participation from the federal government.

Ottawa will have a total of close to $ 1.3 billion, an amount that will be drawn from the Phase 2 envelope of its infrastructure investment project. Over $ 20 billion over 11 years will be invested in this second phase across the country.

However, the federal government is keeping the door open for the Infrastructure Bank of Canada (BIC) to take over from the federal government in this investment. The $ 1.3 billion would then be reinvested in another project.

To do this, it is necessary to wait for the creation of the BIC, and then it will be up to the administrators to decide after analysis. It should be noted that some senators are asking for more time to study the bill on the creation of the BIC.

The Trudeau government, in its latest budget, introduced in the spring, had not confirmed any firm commitment. He wrote about the EMN as one of the "ambitious transit projects [that] will transform Canada's cities over the next decade."

The Government of Quebec did not hide its disappointment at the lack of a clear commitment. The members of the Quebec legislature had almost unanimously adopted a motion deploring this situation.

The REM project includes 27 stations covering 67 kilometers. These will link the South Shore to the North Shore to Deux-Montagnes, via Laval, as well as the Montréal-Trudeau airport and the West Island to Sainte-Anne -de-Bellevue.

Read also :

• The REM of the Fund: questions that have been refused
• The BAPE will not give the green light to the Metropolitan Power System

• https://translate.googleusercontent...in-rem&usg=ALkJrhi0TsTotWAxRihkMStd8quEuTjWZQ
• https://translate.google.ca/transla...-1-3-milliard-projet-rem-montreal&prev=search

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I've not yet digested this, but it appears to be huge, I reserve further comment until I've analyzed this and additional reporting:

• https://translate.google.ca/transla...-1-3-milliard-projet-rem-montreal&prev=search

Au revoir Mount Royal Tunnel!

That is a huge deal for Montreal however. For VIA HFR, I hope transfers are included for those who need to take REM for connecting VIA trips.

 

[Allandale25]

Au revoir Mount Royal Tunnel!

That is a huge deal for Montreal however. For VIA HFR, I hope transfers are included for those who need to take REM for connecting VIA trips.

Forgive my lack of Montreal knowledge but if a single-track tunnel is the obstacle to VIA HFR, why don't they just operate it out of the former CP Rail station? Yes, I realize they'd have to switch by to CAN and get CP' agreement.

 

[steveintoronto]

Forgive my lack of Montreal knowledge but if a single-track tunnel is the obstacle to VIA HFR, why don't they just operate it out of the former CP Rail station? Yes, I realize they'd have to switch by to CAN and get CP' agreement.

Tunnel is double track! The problem is the connection to Quebec City. It can be done another way, but as a huge diversion and hassle, not to mention AMT getting screwed too. Central Station will continue to be the terminal to connect to the rest of the VIA system.

There is the possibility of re-establishing an abandoned RoW for VIA, but we'll get back to that later in discussion as need be. I'm hoping Urban Sky will add comment, as well as others.

I'm having trouble with the English translation of that article. There's mistakes in it, it's a Google translation, not official, so I'm waiting until the CBC releases their own text of it, or the other press do a story on it. Some of the references have been transposed incorrectly.

One observation I will make though, from what I can gather, is the funding, and when the balance will be released by the InfraBank, and the terms attached. There's code in there for the HFR announcement. I leave it at that until I can ascertain the veracity of text.

Edit to Add: Just checked before heading out the door:

Major announcement Thursday: Federal government has agreed to fund REM light rail line

Two stations in downtown Montreal and another north of Mount Royal were on the original proposal announced in April 2016.

0

0

The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, June 14, 2017 8:13PM EDT
OTTAWA - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will announce a $1.28-billion commitment Thursday for a major Montreal rail project that will connect the city to its suburbs and to its international airport.

Trudeau will make the REM announcement at Central Station where he will be joined by Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard, Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre and Michael Sabia, the head of the Caisse de Depot.

A federal source tells The Canadian Press the commitment will either come in the form of a grant via Ottawa's infrastructure-funding agreement with Quebec or possibly through the Trudeau government's proposed infrastructure bank.

The infrastructure bank is designed to use public funds as a way to leverage billions more from private investors to pay for new, large-scale projects, such as rail lines, bridges and transit systems.

The government source, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, says the $5.5-billion Montreal transit proposal fits many of the prerequisites the bank will be looking for -- but notes it will ultimately be up to bank officials to decide.

The Liberal government has said the Trudeau cabinet will also have the power to refuse projects approved by the bank in order to protect the interests of Canadians.

In January 2015, the Quebec government and the province's public pension fund manager announced an agreement to build the electric light-rail network.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/major-an...-agreed-to-fund-rem-light-rail-line-1.3459908

Second Edit to Add:

Whoa! This is what I thought the Google translation was stating. Alexander's French is a lot better than mine, so he was able to make an observation, but regard this closely:
[The government source, who was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, says the $5.5-billion Montreal transit proposal fits many of the prerequisites the bank will be looking for -- but notes it will ultimately be up to bank officials to decide.]

No wonder the National Assembly is pissed. It's *conditional*...I'm still reticent to comment further until I read more details, but this is a bit of a ticking bombshell....and dare I suggest this....purposely done to allow VIA bargaining room that would have been stymied otherwise...The Tunnel isn't lost yet!

More later...

 

[44 North]

How come with the REM plan I've yet to see any mention of building a second, parallel tunnel. There's obviously huge merit with REM, tho IMO it does seem a bit undersized. But really it shouldn't hurt its business case too drastically. It'd be win-win.

 

[steveintoronto]

How come with the REM plan I've yet to see any mention of building a second, parallel tunnel. There's obviously huge merit with REM, tho IMO it does seem a bit undersized. But really it shouldn't hurt its business case too drastically. It'd be win-win.

You raised this question a month or so back, and perhaps a clear answer hadn't been made: COST! And the need to blast a tunnel, it can't be bored. (It's volcanic rock) There are other alternatives to get the Quebec City branch active at a fraction of the cost.

But this brings up a point again that I raised about a month back...and it's premature to bring it up again now....but! The Tunnel: REM takes it. VIA states: "Well since the National Assembly has fugged our plans to get to Quebec City, we'll just present HFR to the Infra Bank and Investors as an Ontario project with a terminus in Montreal. We were forced into this". And they will have been.

So it suddenly becomes a much more attractive project for private investors. Does the National Assembly wish for HFR to continue to Quebec City? Then they're going to have to straighten out their own bed on this. And throw in wads of cash.

Ontario might then also play this to advantage. Remember "HSR"? Well guess what? Yes, it's pie in the sky, and QP knows that, but along comes this opportunity to work with VIA for an essentially *Ontario Project* (along with Metrolinx, ta da!) to fulfil the "HSR" dream, but in sensible terms. And Ontario pushes a chair to the Infra/Investor table. And taking this even further? The door is left open for the Missing Link in some form or other.


Silver linings to black tunnels...

 

[44 North]

You raised this question a month or so back, and perhaps a clear answer hadn't been made: COST! And the need to blast a tunnel, it can't be bored. (It's volcanic rock) There are other alternatives to get the Quebec City branch active at a fraction of the cost.

But this brings up a point again that I raised about a month back...and it's premature to bring it up again now....but! The Tunnel: REM takes it. VIA states: "Well since the National Assembly has fugged our plans to get to Quebec City, we'll just present HFR to the Infra Bank and Investors as an Ontario project with a terminus in Montreal. We were forced into this". And they will have been.

So it suddenly becomes a much more attractive project for private investors. Does the National Assembly wish for HFR to continue to Quebec City? Then they're going to have to straighten out their own bed on this. And throw in wads of cash.

Ontario might then also play this to advantage. Remember "HSR"? Well guess what? Yes, it's pie in the sky, and QP knows that, but along comes this opportunity to work with VIA for an essentially *Ontario Project* (along with Metrolinx, ta da!) to fulfil the "HSR" dream, but in sensible terms. And Ontario pushes a chair to the Infra/Investor table. And taking this even further? The door is left open for the Missing Link in some form or other.


Silver linings to black tunnels...

Hm, I don't remember asking that. And why blast a second tunnel, would've thought Mt Royal would be quite optimal for TBM.

 

[nfitz]

And why blast a second tunnel, would've thought Mt Royal would be quite optimal for TBM.

It's not as optimal as overburden, but I don't think it's precluded. The challenge is it's a mix of sedimentary, igneous, and presumably metamorphic bedrock.

Here's a rather dated cross-section.

 

[steveintoronto]

My apologies 44 if it wasn't you who asked about 'another tunnel'. It's been discounted in a number of blogs. Here's one:

Philip 18:11 on 2016/07/14 Permalink

• It’s maybe a stupid question, but why can’t another (or wider) tunnel be built? For the number of services that seem to want to use the tunnel, wouldn’t it be a reasonably good investment with a quick ROI, even if it costs in the billions? I find it’s weird that it seems like there’s always something in the news about how there isn’t enough capacity in the tunnel, and how it’s dangerous in the tunnel, and the lack of enough rails in the tunnel, and whatnot. And it’s what, like over a hundred years old? (Again, I’m just ignorant, but also curious.)
• @Philip
  If we were to build an alternate North-South tunnel, it would probably cost 2 to 4 billion dollars. It’s a long tunnel, and it goes straight through downtown. Anytime you build a regional network, most of the money will be spent downtown, that’s where it’s the most expensive. So sure we can build another tunnel, but why not spend a couple of hundred million to make our existing infrastructure high capacity instead of low capacity?

• http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/?p=61144&cpage=1
• There's also the massive complications of jurisdiction/ownership, Environmental Assessments, time....even if it were technically possible (and it would be at a massive cost)...why?

 

[44 North]

It's not as optimal as overburden, but I don't think it's precluded. The challenge is it's a mix of sedimentary, igneous, and presumably metamorphic bedrock.

Here's a rather dated cross-section.

Ah I love these kinds of cross sections. Dated or not they have a story to tell. With the overburden comment tho, I would've thought that'd be one of the worst to tunnel through what with its looseness (with the exception of saturated overburden, which could be a headache).

My apologies 44 if it wasn't you who asked about 'another tunnel'. It's been discounted in a number of blogs. Here's one:

• http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/?p=61144&cpage=1
• There's also the massive complications of jurisdiction/ownership, Environmental Assessments, time....even if it were technically possible (and it would be at a massive cost)...why?

Quite alright, it's highly probably I did post a question like that a couple months ago. Sometimes I drink and drivel and forget what I write.

 

[steveintoronto]

I would've thought that'd be one of the worst to tunnel through what with its looseness (with the exception of saturated overburden, which could be a headache).

The Gotthard Base Tunnel (the new one) used TBMs, and had some real nightmare sections of unstable rock, and types not caught in early assays, and they were forced to resort to bucket digging through some extensive sections. (with explosives, of course). TBMs work wonders under ideal conditions, but they have challenges.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

English article on HFR (from Quebec):

HIGH FREQUENCY TRAIN: DRUMMONDVILLE AND TROIS-RIVIERES HAND IN HAND

...“What we are really asking is that the Government of Canada provide financial support for the VIA Rail High Frequency Train project and that the Government of Quebec put it on the list of priority infrastructure projects for Quebec, In the same way as the Montreal Electrical Network (EMN)" explains Drummondville Mayor Alexandre Cusson...

 

[steveintoronto]

English article on HFR (from Quebec):

HIGH FREQUENCY TRAIN: DRUMMONDVILLE AND TROIS-RIVIERES HAND IN HAND

...“What we are really asking is that the Government of Canada provide financial support for the VIA Rail High Frequency Train project and that the Government of Quebec put it on the list of priority infrastructure projects for Quebec, In the same way as the Montreal Electrical Network (EMN)" explains Drummondville Mayor Alexandre Cusson...

We're going to be seeing more of this as time progresses, and this is in my view partly why the Assembly was so miffed on the amount they got from the Fed Infrastructure Program. It means that to get more, (with Fed involvement) the REM case has to be presented to the Infrastructure Bank. And that's going to be the great leveller for HFR. It makes an equal or better case to private investors (Caisse besides, who have their own agenda to pursue on this).

Excellent heads-up, Alex, I'll look for more coverage on that in the English press.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

New VIA Tender:

201706001 - Track Program 2017

The general scope of work covers the supply of all labour, material, engineering, equipment and superintendence to undertake the following track projects on the VIA’s Subdivisions:

VIA Alexandria Subdivision

• Full rehabilitation of two (2) crossings;

VIA Smiths-Falls and Brockville Subdivisions

• Renewal of approximately 5,600 cross-ties on a portion of the VIA Brockville Subdivision;
• Full rehabilitation of two (2) crossings