VIA Rail

[crs1026]

In terms of ownership:

• CP owns the Mid Toronto Line (most likely a new track will be laid besides existing ones, but let's debate this here)
• CP owns the Havelock Sub (to Havelock via Peterborough) (CP will most likely sell this and lease back track time)
• VIA owns Smiths Falls - Ottawa - (almost to) Montreal
• I have no idea for Montreal to Quebec City

Past statements from VIA (and local politicians) have suggested that the Montreal-Quebec City portion would be via the Chemin de Fer Quebec Gatineau, which like GEXR is a Gennesee and Wyoming property. I don't know if they own the line outright or just lease it as GEXR does. It's a former CP line.

There is the continuing issue of the pesky rapid transit line that some would like to see use the Mount Royal tunnel, which for the moment is an AMT line.

Most definitely CP would not share its line from Leaside to Agincourt....I would expect additional trackage in that area. Sharing with CP would be difficult as using only one track would require alternating VIA directionally - this would be highly inflexible and delay prone. Expecting CP to allow VIAs to pass in this territory would be unrealistic as I can't imagine CP accepting both mains to be tied up....and the presence of freights would impede it anyways.

Lastly, don't forget CN from Coteau to Montreal. That will require some additional track especially if hourly service is adopted. I wonder if VIA would consider shifting to the old abandoned M+O Sub from Ottawa to Dorion, which was banked decades ago for future VIA service. With VIA having sunk money into the ex CN Alexandria Sub in the meantime, perhaps that line will never be needed.

- Paul

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Past statements from VIA (and local politicians) have suggested that the Montreal-Quebec City portion would be via the Chemin de Fer Quebec Gatineau, which like GEXR is a Gennesee and Wyoming property. I don't know if they own the line outright or just lease it as GEXR does. It's a former CP line.

There is the continuing issue of the pesky rapid transit line that some would like to see use the Mount Royal tunnel, which for the moment is an AMT line.

Most definitely CP would not share its line from Leaside to Agincourt....I would expect additional trackage in that area. Sharing with CP would be difficult as using only one track would require alternating VIA directionally - this would be highly inflexible and delay prone. Expecting CP to allow VIAs to pass in this territory would be unrealistic as I can't imagine CP accepting both mains to be tied up....and the presence of freights would impede it anyways.

Lastly, don't forget CN from Coteau to Montreal. That will require some additional track especially if hourly service is adopted. I wonder if VIA would consider shifting to the old abandoned M+O Sub from Ottawa to Dorion, which was banked decades ago for future VIA service. With VIA having sunk money into the ex CN Alexandria Sub in the meantime, perhaps that line will never be needed.

- Paul

Thanks for filling me in on some of the other ownership!

For the Leaside to Agincourt section of the CP midtown line, there is enough room for an extra track in most places, minus bridge areas. The large bridge over the valley south of Eglinton and ET Seton Park is one obstacle, and the bridge over the Don Valley is another. Both will require large extra spans. Also, the VIA line will have to cross the CP Tracks at some point with (I presume) a flyover.

The entire line will prove very interesting, but the Toronto section will be quite interesting to watch develop. VIA Trains in the Don Valley and over the brickworks bridge will be very neat. Here is a picture of the last train to use the Don Branch (CP Holiday Train) in 2007!

 

[steveintoronto]

Some background on VIA's attempts to mollify the REM's claim to the Mount Royal Tunnel.

https://translate.google.ca/transla...al-le-bras-de-fer-se-poursuit.php&prev=search

REM might be in trouble. The Feds are so far refusing to fund their share of it. The latest schism is the Investment Bank being sited in Toronto (well duh!), although Sabia (head of Caisse) is on the board for the IB.

McCuaig's status there raises some interesting possibilities for GO and funding for some special projects.

 

[jje1000]

Would Brightline-eque trainsets work for VIA? Very attractive and diesel-powered.

http://gobrightline.com/trains/

I'm quite surprised they got so far with this in Florida of all places.

 

[crs1026]

Would Brightline-eque trainsets work for VIA? Very attractive and diesel-powered.

http://gobrightline.com/trains/

I'm quite surprised they got so far with this in Florida of all places.

Those trainsets would work, yes. They will be produced for other customers in the US.

Brightline works because they are private investor funded, so far. The host railroad is known for bucking the trend (successfully) in how it operates, and embraced the idea.

Florida has found plenty of ways to impede the project north of West Palm Beach, where there would be some public involvement. Florida's Governor turned down federal money to fund construction. The opposition is very well organized. All the same I am hopeful that it will prevail. The market there has huge potential.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

VIA Rail reports outstanding growth for the third consecutive year
[...]

• Ridership up 4.1%
• Passenger Revenues up 9.5%

MONTRÉAL, May 10, 2017 /CNW/ - VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) reported record results today for 2016. The positive trend observed since May 2014 continues as the company closed the year with a 4.1% increase in ridership compared to 2015. Passenger revenues also showed a year-over-year improvement, increasing by 9.5% compared to the previous year, which can be partially attributed to the fact that more travellers chose VIA Rail for longer trips. In 2016, VIA Rail carried almost 4 million passengers, who travelled 858 million miles.
[...]
http://www.newswire.ca/news-release...for-the-third-consecutive-year-621936023.html

 

[SaugeenJunction]

VIA Rail reports outstanding growth for the third consecutive year
[...]

• Ridership up 4.1%
• Passenger Revenues up 9.5%

MONTRÉAL, May 10, 2017 /CNW/ - VIA Rail Canada (VIA Rail) reported record results today for 2016. The positive trend observed since May 2014 continues as the company closed the year with a 4.1% increase in ridership compared to 2015. Passenger revenues also showed a year-over-year improvement, increasing by 9.5% compared to the previous year, which can be partially attributed to the fact that more travellers chose VIA Rail for longer trips. In 2016, VIA Rail carried almost 4 million passengers, who travelled 858 million miles.
[...]
http://www.newswire.ca/news-release...for-the-third-consecutive-year-621936023.html

That's awesome. Now imagine if we had HFR with trains running almost every hour? The gains would be huge, as people clearly want to take the train.

 

[steveintoronto]

That's awesome. Now imagine if we had HFR with trains running almost every hour? The gains would be huge, as people clearly want to take the train.

Considering that VIA have been so underfunded, and still waiting for a decision on new equipment, they're doing very well. Nothing makes a case for continued support like success.

 

[SamStar]

Some background on VIA's attempts to mollify the REM's claim to the Mount Royal Tunnel.

https://translate.google.ca/transla...al-le-bras-de-fer-se-poursuit.php&prev=search

REM might be in trouble. The Feds are so far refusing to fund their share of it. The latest schism is the Investment Bank being sited in Toronto (well duh!), although Sabia (head of Caisse) is on the board for the IB.

McCuaig's status there raises some interesting possibilities for GO and funding for some special projects.

Unfortunately, the momentum is set for the REM.
Recently, the provincial GVT revealed that it is currently working on a law to facilitate the construction of the REM.
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...-projet-de-loi-pour-ouvrir-la-voie-au-rem.php

There is no federal funding announced yet. A study ordered by the feds on how the federal gvt could optimally fund the project (via the infrastructure bank vs infrastructure money) will be out in 2 months. There is also an understanding that the funding has to come relatively quickly.
Québec has already committed 2 billion $ for the project.
Here is an article fresh from this morning in La Presse http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economi...especter-le-calendrier-serre-de-la-caisse.php

I think VIA will not be able to use the Mont-Royal tunnel and will have to find an alternative route to reach North toward Trois-Rivières which is really disappointing.

 

[steveintoronto]

Here's a translated version of Sam's link:
https://translate.google.ca/transla...calendrier-serre-de-la-caisse.php&prev=search

 

[steveintoronto]

Unfortunately, the momentum is set for the REM.
Recently, the provincial GVT revealed that it is currently working on a law to facilitate the construction of the REM.
http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/p...-projet-de-loi-pour-ouvrir-la-voie-au-rem.php

There is no federal funding announced yet. A study ordered by the feds on how the federal gvt could optimally fund the project (via the infrastructure bank vs infrastructure money) will be out in 2 months. There is also an understanding that the funding has to come relatively quickly.
Québec has already committed 2 billion $ for the project.
Here is an article fresh from this morning in La Presse http://affaires.lapresse.ca/economi...especter-le-calendrier-serre-de-la-caisse.php

I think VIA will not be able to use the Mont-Royal tunnel and will have to find an alternative route to reach North toward Trois-Rivières which is really disappointing.

Many thanks for that link.

From the translated version:

[...]
WHAT WILL THE FEDERAL CONTRIBUTION BE?

In an interview, the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities refuses to show his interest in the federal government's financial contribution to this project. Behind the scenes, however, it is reported that Ottawa is prepared to disburse some $ 1.3 billion, as requested by the Government of Quebec. "We can not discuss right away the amount that will be invested. We have to do our homework first. But once we do our homework, we will work closely with the Province of Quebec to move this project forward. [...] We received all the final details of the project in mid-March. We have been working tirelessly on this project since, "the minister said.

The Caisse wishes to start work in the fall so that the train can run at the latest by the end of 2020. "The challenge we have is that the Infrastructure Bank has not yet Formally created. So the timetable is unique, and that's why we have been using private sector experts, "he added.

A TRANSFORMER PROJECT

For Minister Sohi, the EMN is the kind of project Ottawa wants to support. On the one hand, such a project will reduce both congestion on Montreal roads and pollution. On the other hand, this will allow workers to spend less time in their car and more time with their family.

" Every time a transit project reduces congestion and increases productivity, it is a transformative project. I am a strong supporter of public transit. - Amarjeet Sohi

"My experience as a city councilor in Edmonton, and before that as a bus driver, has shown me the importance of having a good public transit system," he said.

According to him, municipalities should see him as an important ally at the cabinet table for these projects. "Such projects create economic growth and create new opportunities. It also improves people's quality of life. When a person is stuck in traffic, it is not only a loss of productivity, but that person also spends less quality time with his family, his children. That's why we believe in these investments, "he added. Mr. Sohi also pointed out that the federal government has also injected nearly $ 950 million into public transit projects in Quebec over the past 12 months.

THE INFRASTRUCTURE BANK

While the Government of Quebec expressed disappointment over the Trudeau government's decision to establish the new infrastructure bank in Toronto instead of Montreal, Minister Amarjeet Sohi argued that the location of this new creature Is "secondary". "The main thing for us has always been to ensure that we structure the bank in a way that will allow municipalities to build new infrastructure that they need. That's where the growth is. The Bank will be a small entity. It will not be an entity that will employ many people. The real potential lies in the projects that will be funded. "

https://translate.google.ca/transla...calendrier-serre-de-la-caisse.php&prev=search

I do see a silver lining to this cloud though: The tunnel is lost, but HFR is born from the loss. I can see a good possibility of funding for the Montreal/Ottawa/Toronto leg as a result of this. What's peculiar, at least in the English press, is the lack of coverage from either AMT (they may be stifled) or VIA. D-S has taken a fair amount of flak over acquiescing to the REM takeover of the tunnel. His options might be few, and he doesn't dare poison the larger well for the sake of the Quebec City leg.

This might be a necessary sacrifice. Perhaps when REM shows severe limitations (some are already acknowledged) there'll be an uproar to put the tunnel back the way it was. That's a debate in itself, since it must be federal property still.

Edit to Add: There are indications that the tunnel is 'in the possession' (if not owned by) of AMT:

Background on REM issue here:
http://www.cat-bus.com/2016/08/how-...lic-partnership-is-privatization-in-disguise/

 

[cplchanb]

jus

That's awesome. Now imagine if we had HFR with trains running almost every hour? The gains would be huge, as people clearly want to take the train.

just to kind of put it into perspective...during the rush hour periods, japan has shinkansen trains coming every 5 minutes. I recall looking at their next train displays and they had 3 trains scheduled in each direction departing in a span of 15 min!! I guess compared to canada it would be hyper frequent service... thats japan though... I can live with 1 every 30 min, but it ideally should be EMUs

 

[steveintoronto]

just to kind of put it into perspective...during the rush hour periods, japan has shinkansen trains coming every 5 minutes. I recall looking at their next train displays and they had 3 trains scheduled in each direction departing in a span of 15 min!! I guess compared to canada it would be hyper frequent service... thats japan though... I can live with 1 every 30 min, but it ideally should be EMUs

To put that in perspective in the GTHA, GO Transit still offers only hourly service on many routes. It's entirely possible that if VIA is offering hourly trains on the Peterborough alignment, GO will offer an RER type service hourly to mesh with VIA to Peterborough, but GO would of course be a stopping service, thus complementing VIA's express through Peterborough to Toronto, stopping at Peterborough and perhaps a station in the north of Toronto before headed down to Union.

VIA certainly isn't going to be providing RER levels of frequency. The operation has to break even from the start for operating budget, and increase from there. But Japan certainly has lessons for others to learn from. Paris claims to have modelled the RER on Tokyo.

With passing loops and CBTC Plus signalling/control, this can be done on a single track line, although GO might be held at times in station loops for an HFR to pass.

 

[steveintoronto]

Here's the latest May update for London's Crossrail:

 

[robmausser]

To put that in perspective in the GTHA, GO Transit still offers only hourly service on many routes. It's entirely possible that if VIA is offering hourly trains on the Peterborough alignment, GO will offer an RER type service hourly to mesh with VIA to Peterborough, but GO would of course be a stopping service, thus complementing VIA's express through Peterborough to Toronto, stopping at Peterborough and perhaps a station in the north of Toronto before headed down to Union.

VIA certainly isn't going to be providing RER levels of frequency. The operation has to break even from the start for operating budget, and increase from there. But Japan certainly has lessons for others to learn from. Paris claims to have modelled the RER on Tokyo.

With passing loops and CBTC Plus signalling/control, this can be done on a single track line, although GO might be held at times in station loops for an HFR to pass.

The Lakeshore Line is every 30 minutes.