VIA Rail

[crs1026]

The impression I get that is that whatever service is implemented on these new lines will be in addition to what currently exists, not replacing it. I'm sure existing lines might see the odd change but nothing in any of the articles or discussions about HFR has lead me to believe that places like Drummondville could see service cutbacks (time will tell though).

That's the same impression I am left with, and frankly I don't believe it. If you deduct the revenue from through passengers (who will henceforth travel on the new HFR), what happens to the economics of the stopping service? What happens to the freight railways' leverage when they declare that the local service is getting in their way and now that VIA has its own tracks, why should they have to accommodate passenger trains on their rails?

When D-S first became CEO of VIA, he made a number of speeches in which he painted VIA's future as being in this local business. I don't believe he ever backed these claims up with numbers (not that we've seen hard numbers on HFR either).

One scenario might be that VIA taps the provinces for subsidies for these services. An interesting bit of downloading, if that happens. Another might be that Ottawa's share of profit from HFR is used to offset loss on local service.

At any event, our assumptions need to be verified before we rely on them too far. I can't believe that Ottawa would continue the existing subsidy on top of whatever stake they assume in HFR.

- Paul

 

[JohnnyRenton]

That's the same impression I am left with, and frankly I don't believe it. If you deduct the revenue from through passengers (who will henceforth travel on the new HFR), what happens to the economics of the stopping service? What happens to the freight railways' leverage when they declare that the local service is getting in their way and now that VIA has its own tracks, why should they have to accommodate passenger trains on their rails?

When D-S first became CEO of VIA, he made a number of speeches in which he painted VIA's future as being in this local business. I don't believe he ever backed these claims up with numbers (not that we've seen hard numbers on HFR either).

One scenario might be that VIA taps the provinces for subsidies for these services. An interesting bit of downloading, if that happens. Another might be that Ottawa's share of profit from HFR is used to offset loss on local service.

At any event, our assumptions need to be verified before we rely on them too far. I can't believe that Ottawa would continue the existing subsidy on top of whatever stake they assume in HFR.

- Paul

I think the one point you made, about VIA's existing leverage with the freight lines, is one of the reasons why they will want to maintain the status quo as closely as possible. If they start giving up the odd slot here and there, they are likely never to get them back so there is a strong incentive to keep using them.

That being said, you are also right that the freight lines are not going to play nice forever, even without HFR. This is why part of me thinks that HFR is as much about creating a 'detour' for the existing network, as it is about improving service and adding some new markets to the network.

The south shore route is a bit different, but if you think about the Lakeshore/St Lawrence route it is still the most important part of the corridor network and when it comes to the fastest possible Toronto-Montreal service (plus many other important stops along the way) this is where its going to happen. I am sure VIA would love to be able to build a dedicated corridor mirroring the existing shared line right now but obviously that will be a massive project. With the this new HFR route they can still expand frequency and service to Ottawa and Montreal without the frustration of trying to make it work on the existing shared line (which we already know). But it also means that VIA could start a full scale HSL between Toronto and Montreal and do so knowing that in the event there were major disruptions along the Lakeshore/St Lawrence corridor during its construction, or further issues with the freight companies, they could still maintain service to Ottawa and Montreal via the new HFR line.

I know this theory is not based on anything that has been said by VIA officials, but, it is a scenario I would consider plausible based on all the above factors, and many others not mentioned.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well, that escalated quickly. It might also be that KW already has regular rail service, so the gains in ridership from a slightly higher speed might be smaller than opening up a completely new market in TR.

That in no way means that TR is more important than KW, but for a phase 1 of a project, you aim for the low-hanging fruit.

More likely the provincial government is currently planning HSR in the corridor so they are leaving HFR off the table until that gets figured out.

The best route for HFR to London is through Kitchener and Brampton in terms of ridership, and there are a lot of unkowns on that corridor right now. Give it a few years, they will figure it out. I'm sure there will be a lot of improvements on that corridor.

 

[robmausser]

The Smith Falls/Peterborough route is the route they should NOT take. Why?.......because already you have the 2 mayors lining up and getting the citizens pumped up about the future service. In other words, more stops. What's the point of having HFR when your trip is actually slower?

For the TOM corridor they should have just 2 trains... 1} Tor/Mon and 2} Tor/King/Ott/Mon.

Not only can you have some express trains and some that stop at all stops, the majority of slowdowns on the current VIA network isn't stations, its freight traffic.

Stopping at stations makes it worse because it gives freight an opportunity to ask to pass a VIA train while its already stopped at a station.

With dedicated tracks this will not be an issue.

 

[ssiguy2]

I disagree with the London route going via Kitchener.

The route via Aldershot is much more direct and I don't think the ridership will be there for KW/G as more GO options become available. SWO needs fast rail to Toronto if there is going to be a viable alternative to driving. Whatever service they provide to SWO should be a Toronto/London non-stop and then be concerned about smaller stations/routes like Strathroy, Sarnia, and Chatham. Tor to London in 75 minutes should be the goal and that can be done without electrification.

 

[Urban Sky]

Tor to London in 75 minutes should be the goal and that can be done without electrification.

Care to explain how? What route, what design speed, etc.?

 

[robmausser]

I disagree with the London route going via Kitchener.

The route via Aldershot is much more direct and I don't think the ridership will be there for KW/G as more GO options become available. SWO needs fast rail to Toronto if there is going to be a viable alternative to driving. Whatever service they provide to SWO should be a Toronto/London non-stop and then be concerned about smaller stations/routes like Strathroy, Sarnia, and Chatham. Tor to London in 75 minutes should be the goal and that can be done without electrification.

While its direct you miss the opportunity to stop at Kitchener and Pearson, two significant draws for ridership, especially when phase 2 of ION LRT will be complete.

With the proper dedicated trackage and train equipment you could still make it from London to Toronto via this route in about 80 minutes, and pick up many more passengers along the way, as well as service more areas.

Although Hamilton is a significant draw in its own right.

Perhaps it would be best to have two services: Government of Ontarios high speed rail from Toronto <-> Pearson <-> Kitchener <-> London, and Via Rails from Windsor <-> London <-> Hamilton <-> Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

I disagree with the London route going via Kitchener.

The route via Aldershot is much more direct...

Is it much more direct?

The old 1950s CN timetable says that Toronto to London via Brantford was 119.9 miles while the route through Kitchener was 121.4 miles.

A little more direct maybe. Much more? No. Though perhaps if they restored the Brantford by-pass that CN abandoned back in 1938 ...

Still, there's a lot less curves between Toronto and Kitchener than there is between Toronto and Paris.

 

[TOareaFan]

Can't discount the marketing cache of VIA advertising "Toronto to London via Paris" though!

 

[nfitz]

Can't discount the marketing cache of VIA advertising "Toronto to London via Paris" though!

So they should restore Kitchener's old name of Berlin then!

 

[TOareaFan]

So they should restore Kitchener's old name of Berlin then!

Absolutely.

 

[Allandale25]

This article is mostly about NS and NB but there is reference to the Quebec-Ontario corridor.

Commuter rail 'very feasible' possibility in Halifax, Via Rail president says
Commuter rail and daily regional service are Via's two big focuses for the Maritimes
By Michael Gorman, CBC News Posted: Jan 31, 2017 4:24 PM AT Last Updated: Jan 31, 2017 5:14 PM AT

Work is well underway to try to make commuter rail service a reality for Halifax.

Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, president and CEO of Via Rail, told a Halifax Chamber of Commerce luncheon on Tuesday the Crown corporation and municipality have been working on the plan, which he called "a conversation," for more than a year.

He said the idea is "very feasible."

Desjardins-Siciliano said it started when he approached the municipality to offer his help after reading in local media about people discussing the idea. It's one of two major plans Via would like to pursue for the Maritimes, said Desjardins-Siciliano.

Time to finalize a plan
He told reporters Via and the municipality need to finalize an operating plan that looks at capacity, traffic schedules and pricing, then bring it to CN, the railway owner, for approval. Desjardins-Siciliano said the work is headed in the right direction and he expected the owner would be open to the idea as long as there are no conflicts.

"The freight industry is important in Canada — it's $400 billion of goods that move by train in Canada, so we can't do anything that will impede that competitiveness."

The novel aspect of this idea is that it would use existing infrastructure, which should make it faster and cheaper to do if a plan can be approved, he said.

Daily regional return service
The other big effort for Via in the Maritimes is regularly daily regional service and Desjardins-Siciliano said such trips between Halifax and Moncton, N.B., would begin later this year.

Overall ridership and revenue are up since he came on board two years ago, said Desjardins-Siciliano, and the key to more improvements is getting more people to ride the train. To that end, Via is preparing a $4-billion plan to improve service in the corridor from Quebec to Ontario, where 90 per cent of the ridership and revenue reside.

Making that section of Via's service profitable means the organization is stronger overall and more self-sustaining, which would translate to more revenue to help less profitable elements of the service, said Desjardins-Siciliano.

Trickle-down benefits
If Via were to be compared to a shopping mall, he said, the corridor is the anchor tenant.

"You need that big tenant that brings in people that will then use the services and products of the smaller tenants of the mall," he said.

"If we have to always go cap in hand to government to get them to subsidize services that are not growing — at some point it's going to end."

 

[crs1026]

If the statement about Moncton-Halifax service restoration is credible, that's a huge accomplishment.

One can't help but start to imagine service to Saint John again, and/or up to Campbellton. VIA already pays a huge share of the cost of the Campbellton line, because it's virtually devoid of freight traffic. The cost of adding more trains is likely not much more than the above the rail costs.

I wonder what equipment would be used.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Absolutely.

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...ple-voted-for-berlin-to-be-renamed-kitchener/

 

[Urban Sky]

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...ple-voted-for-berlin-to-be-renamed-kitchener/

Mind you that this was after WWI (not WWII), thus after the war where the only "crime" of us Germans was to have fought on the "wrong" side. Instead, they named the city after a character, which even the BBC describes as follows:

In 1900, Kitchener was appointed chief of staff to Lord Roberts, British commander in the Boer War. When Roberts returned to England, Kitchener was left to deal with continuing Boer resistance. His ruthless measures - including the use of camps to imprison civilians (the origin of the term 'concentration camp') - were much criticised.
[...]
But his cabinet colleagues did not share the public worship of Kitchener and he was gradually relieved of his responsibilities. His support for the disastrous Dardanelles operation, combined with the 'shell crisis' of 1915, eroded his reputation further. Sent on a mission to Russia in June 1916, he drowned on 5 June when his ship, HMS Hampshire was sunk by a German mine off the Orkneys.

Oh, what an irony...