VIA Rail

[nfitz]

Ornge isn't a rescue service; it is an ambulance service that flies. If a passenger needs medical transport, they still need to get them to a road or suitable clearing. Medical assistance is different than folks stuck on a train.

Of course.

Didn't you see the smiley? If I made a joke about Jesus, Moses, and Valentine Michael Smith walking into a bar - would you point out that Moses is dead?

The military is a poor idea, but none of Toronto-Montreal is more than a 12-hour drive from CFB Kingston; and none of Montreal to Quebec is more than a 12-hour drive from Longue-Point!

For the record, the major centres - Toronto, Kingston, Quebec City - along the corridor could spare 2 or 3 or 4 buses. The minor ones - say, Belleville or Drummondville - could not. Their fleets and operator bases are that small.

I've already apologized and said I'm on the wrong side of this. But for the record I've seen a lot more than 4 buses on an emergency TTC subway diversion. And I'd think 2-3 buses is more than enough to start shuttling people to the nearest ONRoute, community centre, or equivalent.

 

[crs1026]

Fair enough, but some are making the 'call the military' (or at least call the feds) case. "Local' is the key word. Aviation and maritime matters in federal waters is a JRCC/SAR responsibility. The words 'search' and 'rescue' imply the need for at least one to be required.


And they exist here as well, in Ontario mostly in the north but again, primarily for the search+rescue function. Services offered are consistent with the locale (bush search, mountain rescue, etc.). I suspect that slogging into a stranded train and either carrying supplies or escorting passengers out (all assuming walking distance) would be carried out by local formal emergency services. What to do with them when they are 'out' might fall to an existing partnership with the Red Cross, St. John's Ambulance, etc. Rescue implies removal from danger or distress. Where that line falls varies.

A couple decades ago I worked at a major industrial facility that had an emergency preparedness plan that envisaged (in a worst case scenario) evacuating a large urban area. There were protocols for requesting provincial emergency mobilization - and these involved filling out forms and getting approval first from various municipal authorities.

A similar requirement no doubt exists at the Federal level. The army does not respond to requests from single organizations. A provincial minister or the Premier would likely have to make the request, and federal authorities would then have to deliberate . That kind of request and response goes well beyond what would be useful or timely to respond to a stalled passenger train. It definitely falls on VIA and its host railways to have a plan and make that plan work within their own sphere of influence and with the most immediate agencies.

Edit: Or at least were more open about what they are trying/did try to do to alleviate the situation. Hearing a month or two later that they tried to rent buses is mitigating. That knowledge might have gaining them some sympathy, even from the passengers, if it had been communicated at the time.

The biggest gap in this event was indeed not so much a failure to respond logistically, as a failure to keep people in the loop. The glass was partly full in VIA's handling of the problem.

I think as a society we give Corporate Communicators far too much leeway to compose unhelpful messages and hold back actual information.

I did once experience an airline pilot who tried to explain what part of a jet engine was not working that caused us to u-turn off the taxiway and return to the gate... the explanation was not enlightening, but there was a lot greater confidence that the situation was being handled competently. There may be only so much the train service crew can do to explain to passengers what a particular mechanical problem is - but who the problem has been escalated to and how they will be responding, and how the most immediate and basic passenger needs will be met, is pretty reassuring.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Great, provided the incident is within reasonable driving distance from a Base. Do you think VIA can simply call the Base and ask for a bus and driver?

For this instance, there are bases in Montreal and Quebec City, We are not talking Hornepayne.

 

[Bordercollie]

For this instance, there are bases in Montreal and Quebec City, We are not talking Hornepayne.

What would it take to have spare crews available at TMC, MMC, Kingston, Ottawa, London and Quebec? But you would need a spare train set at each of those laying over until needed. A place to park it and shore power.

Seems like a lot for incidents that happen three times a year.

 

[dowlingm]

What would it take to have spare crews available at TMC, MMC, Kingston, Ottawa, London and Quebec? But you would need a spare train set at each of those laying over until needed. A place to park it and shore power.

Seems like a lot for incidents that happen three times a year.

Given that we have recently heard that Ottawa crew base is discontented due to under staffing, this seems to be more of an issue than finagling some power.

 

[lenaitch]

Didn't you see the smiley? If I made a joke about Jesus, Moses, and Valentine Michael Smith walking into a bar - would you point out that Moses is dead?

The military is a poor idea, but none of Toronto-Montreal is more than a 12-hour drive from CFB Kingston; and none of Montreal to Quebec is more than a 12-hour drive from Longue-Point!

I guess I did miss that. I'm old school and tend not to notice emojis.

The military is the wrong solution regardless of proximity.

A couple decades ago I worked at a major industrial facility that had an emergency preparedness plan that envisaged (in a worst case scenario) evacuating a large urban area. There were protocols for requesting provincial emergency mobilization - and these involved filling out forms and getting approval first from various municipal authorities.

Back in the '80s when I was an OPP supervisor, probably in a moment of sheer boredom (likely on the midnight shift), I read through the emergency evacuation and traffic diversion plan for Pickering Nuclear. I couldn't believe how laughingly unrealistic it was. It called for more vehicles, personnel and other resources than we could have assembled in a week. But I suppose they could tell the regulator they had a plan.

 

[micheal_can]

I guess I did miss that. I'm old school and tend not to notice emojis.

The military is the wrong solution regardless of proximity.

I mentioned them as a last resort They shouldn't be the first call, but they can be a call..

Back in the '80s when I was an OPP supervisor, probably in a moment of sheer boredom (likely on the midnight shift), I read through the emergency evacuation and traffic diversion plan for Pickering Nuclear. I couldn't believe how laughingly unrealistic it was. It called for more vehicles, personnel and other resources than we could have assembled in a week. But I suppose they could tell the regulator they had a plan.

Most emergency plans are made by people who do not execute them. I found that out in the navy real quick. On the shops, there are certain places where if a fire happens, or someone is a casualty, there is a SOP for it, but, but they tend not to field test as it is 'too hard'.So, one time I put one of their SOPs to the test. They could not fathom the time it took to get that particular space safe to enter to fight a fire. By then,the fake fire had spread.

All of this to say, Via has had several emergencies,and I have yet to see one that could be called a success. Things won't change till a fatality happens over it. I doubt a class action lawsuit would be enough to make the changes.

 

[Bordercollie]

I mentioned them as a last resort They shouldn't be the first call, but they can be a call..


Most emergency plans are made by people who do not execute them. I found that out in the navy real quick. On the shops, there are certain places where if a fire happens, or someone is a casualty, there is a SOP for it, but, but they tend not to field test as it is 'too hard'.So, one time I put one of their SOPs to the test. They could not fathom the time it took to get that particular space safe to enter to fight a fire. By then,the fake fire had spread.

All of this to say, Via has had several emergencies,and I have yet to see one that could be called a success. Things won't change till a fatality happens over it. I doubt a class action lawsuit would be enough to make the changes.

Having to testify infront of an inquiry is pretty embarrassing.

They should be accountable for actually implementing their emergency procedures.

How long did it take to marshall two P42's and and HEP car?

Who crewed it? How did they get permission from dispatch and given a track slot to rescue the stranded train?

So the train set was dead in tow to the next station?

How did they send another train to ferry the passengers to their destination?