VIA Rail

[Bureaucromancer]

I know the eventual plan is they completely replace the Renaissance fleet. Am I right that once they get the last ones,the plan is to replace all the Corridor fleet? In other words, only those will be on those routes? When is the last one supposed to arrive? Is it on schedule?

I don't think it's been made entirely clear whether it is actually a total fleet replacement or not... There's been talk at times of some HEP sets sticking around.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yes. 3 days a week each way out of Sudbury.


Throughout Canada, there is demand for more service, but there isn't the funding for it. For instance, if Via's budget was doubled, and their service was doubled, it would still have those moments of 'sold out'. Same for GO.

The 1980s were a fork in the road. Ridership was too low on many routes. Do we improve the system and leave highways as limited use to increase ridership or invest in highways and shut down the routes? I remember when I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004-2007, where the last VIA train stopped in the early 1990s, and thinking I’d definitely prefer to take a train to Moncton, Saint John or Halifax from here than drive, especially in winter.

 

[Urban Sky]

I don't think it's been made entirely clear whether it is actually a total fleet replacement or not... There's been talk at times of some HEP sets sticking around.

It is a total fleet replacement of the Corridor fleet, i.e. you won‘t see anything but Chargers and Ventures on any Corridor train. However, some equipment might get cascaded to other (non-Corridor) services to buy some additional time before the non-Corridor fleet replacement hopefully arrives, but this only concerns F40s and HEP cars…

The 1980s were a fork in the road. Ridership was too low on many routes. Do we improve the system and leave highways as limited use to increase ridership or invest in highways and shut down the routes? I remember when I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004-2007, where the last VIA train stopped in the early 1990s, and thinking I’d definitely prefer to take a train to Moncton, Saint John or Halifax from here than drive, especially in winter.

Fredericton lost its rail service before VIA was created and only had a short renaissance in 1981-1985, when the Atlantic was cancelled and replaced by a Fredericton-SJNB-MCTN-HLFX day train. Service to Fredericton Junction (i.e. some 30 km away) terminated in 1994 with the final cancellation of the Atlantic…

 

[crs1026]

I remember when I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004-2007, where the last VIA train stopped in the early 1990s, and thinking I’d definitely prefer to take a train to Moncton, Saint John or Halifax from here than drive, especially in winter.

Virtually every Maritimer I know comments on the ugly winter drives. There have been some very tragic highway crashes attributable to people trying to get around in bad weather.

One has to think that there is a "build it and they will come" proposition here.

The problem is, a) it would have to be a full infrastructure build-out, and not just a marginal "add a train now and then" proposition, which carries a hefty price tag and b) it would have to run at a sub-economic level for a period while the concept and travel culture sets in.

Personally I think it would cement a lot of development and population growth, but I'm not sure that either the sense ofurgency nor the spending appetite is there.

Maybe in my grandchildrens' lifetime.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

The problem is, a) it would have to be a full infrastructure build-out,

Never going to happen, again. There was a Maritimes-wide passenger system, in our grandfathers lifetime. This is why I often think, being born. In 1971 and arriving here in 1976, that I got to live at the final era of Peak Canada.

 

[Admiral Beez]

It is a total fleet replacement of the Corridor fleet, i.e. you won‘t see anything but Chargers and Ventures on any Corridor train.

The Renaissance cars are ridiculously out of date. Hopefully they go first. The one I took from Ottawa to Quebec last Saturday was in very rough shape - much worse than the refurbished LRC car we rode from Montreal to Toronto. When do we get the final Seimens Venture. And what’s a Charger?

 

[Urban Sky]

Virtually every Maritimer I know comments on the ugly winter drives. There have been some very tragic highway crashes attributable to people trying to get around in bad weather.

To which I reply the same as to our fellow commenter from Sudbury: send your snow removal teams to Quebec and watch how we survive without passenger rail service to our third- (Sherbrooke) and fith-largest (Trois-Rivières) CMAs and without any useful service to the fourth-largest (Saguenay). It’s not the problem of us federal taxpayers to compensate for the failure of your municipalities and regions to adapt to the Canadian climate…

 

[Urban Sky]

The Renaissance cars are ridiculously out of date. Hopefully they go first. The one I took from Ottawa to Quebec last Saturday was in very rough shape - much worse than the refurbished LRC car we rode from Montreal to Toronto. When do we get the final Seimens Venture. And what’s a Charger?

The LRCs (even the refurbished ones) will go first, as they already experience some form of natural attrition by cars failing structural inspections every month or so. The (Corridor) Renaissance cars will get replaced once there are enough Siemens trainsets delivered to no longer depend on them…

 

[crs1026]

Never going to happen, again. There was a Maritimes-wide passenger system, in our grandfathers lifetime. This is why I often think, being born. In 1971 and arriving here in 1976, that I got to live at the final era of Peak Canada.

Well, I'm pretty close to fantasy territory here, and on the verge of digressing badly, but here goes..... if we assume that the Maritimes aspires to be a more populous and economically developed region,..... and that there is a national consensus that developing the Maritimes is part of our future.....and therefore a recognition that up-front investment in infrastructure will enable that growth.... what infrastructure investment will facilitate this better?

Certainly, more highway investment is not the way to go. Some smaller communities do have airports, (and even direct flights to Toronto or Montreal, but not necessarily air links to Halifax or Moncton.....sigh...), but relying on air links between Halifax, Moncton, Saint John, and Frederictor, and maybe Bathurst, is not sustainable except at the higher end user.

I suppose one could justify a much better bus network as an interim step. But -similar to intra-city transport - a higher order rail corridor will anchor and cement development much better than bus lanes.

Sadly, we haven't really figured out that a rail corridor could constructively anchor development and industry in the much more populous Kingston-Toronto-Kitchener-London-Windsor corridor, so doing it in the Maritimes is not on... so I certainly agree, not in my lifetime. But the idea is not without its appeal intellectually.

- Paul

 

[Bureaucromancer]

On that LRC fleet status note, am I crazy or are a lot of trains operating with an HEP buffer car?

And while it really does belong in the fantasy thread, I'm going to drop my two cents as to non-corridor passenger service:

I don't see a path to good service on CN or CP, or to nationalizing either railroad... building out a new transcon, marketed as national scale HFR, but in practice being a mixed use railway that prioritizes passengers while selling track time to other operators might just be within the realm of possibility.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well, I'm pretty close to fantasy territory here, and on the verge of digressing badly, but here goes.....

If we’re in fantasy, I also would like to ride the Newfoundland narrow gauge railway. But was never VIA, I believe, so we’d best take further discussion over to https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/newfoundland-rail-connection.31158/#post-1476055

 

[Bureaucromancer]

On that LRC fleet status note, am I crazy or are a lot of trains operating with an HEP buffer car?

If we’re in fantasy, I also would like to ride the Newfoundland narrow gauge railway. But was never VIA, I believe, so we’d best take further discussion over to https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/newfoundland-rail-connection.31158/#post-1476055

I mean I'd love to bring back the Newfoundland railway, but the only way it would happen is building the tunnel (mind you, I wouldn't even consider supporting a tunnel unless it had rail connections on both ends), and that means at least as much new track in northern Quebec and Labrador as in Newfoundland. I wouldn't be wholly opposed to it on a nation building level, but only after we've fixed a pile of the more pressing infrastructure issues than the lack of a Newfoundland fixed link.

 

[Urban Sky]

On that LRC fleet status note, am I crazy or are a lot of trains operating with an HEP buffer car?

That was the case for a few months this year for all trains with HEP cars (i.e. to keep the first and last car empty if any car in the consist has a HEP car), but that requirement was dropped at some point this year…

Edit: the buffer car requirement was in place from last October until this May:

 

[micheal_can]

The 1980s were a fork in the road. Ridership was too low on many routes. Do we improve the system and leave highways as limited use to increase ridership or invest in highways and shut down the routes? I remember when I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004-2007, where the last VIA train stopped in the early 1990s, and thinking I’d definitely prefer to take a train to Moncton, Saint John or Halifax from here than drive, especially in winter.

Had we reduced the usage,but kept it and then allowed it to be rebuilt if the ridership grew, we would be in a lot better position. Had Via been given a better mandate and had the freight regulations been set up so that they could not let Via become late due to their freight train's fault. Now, a lot of people are waking up to what we lost. It reminds me of the fact that there is a new idea for ships - sails....

Virtually every Maritimer I know comments on the ugly winter drives. There have been some very tragic highway crashes attributable to people trying to get around in bad weather.

One has to think that there is a "build it and they will come" proposition here.

The problem is, a) it would have to be a full infrastructure build-out, and not just a marginal "add a train now and then" proposition, which carries a hefty price tag and b) it would have to run at a sub-economic level for a period while the concept and travel culture sets in.

Personally I think it would cement a lot of development and population growth, but I'm not sure that either the sense of urgency nor the spending appetite is there.

Maybe in my grandchildrens' lifetime.

- Paul

If the existing rail lines connecting the cities were used and the service was at least once a day each way, and the tracks were maintained so that the speed was reasonable, it could be successful. Problem is, there really is no political will.

I mean I'd love to bring back the Newfoundland railway, but the only way it would happen is building the tunnel (mind you, I wouldn't even consider supporting a tunnel unless it had rail connections on both ends), and that means at least as much new track in northern Quebec and Labrador as in Newfoundland. I wouldn't be wholly opposed to it on a nation building level, but only after we've fixed a pile of the more pressing infrastructure issues than the lack of a Newfoundland fixed link.

A rail link could be done at the Strait of Belle Isle. Problem is, it is around 100m at it's shallowest point and there are no rail infrastructure near either end.With enough money, anything is possible. Just a matter of whether the political will for it ever is there.

i-Boating : Free Marine Navigation Charts & Fishing Maps

 

[lenaitch]

I don't see a path to good service on CN or CP, or to nationalizing either railroad... building out a new transcon, marketed as national scale HFR, but in practice being a mixed use railway that prioritizes passengers while selling track time to other operators might just be within the realm of possibility.

Of course, freight railways who have spent the past couple of decades rationalizing the own trackage would want to rent more space on somebody else's. Back in the age of rail we used to have three transcontinental lines, and couldn't support all of them back then.

Had we reduced the usage,but kept it and then allowed it to be rebuilt if the ridership grew, we would be in a lot better position. Had Via been given a better mandate and had the freight regulations been set up so that they could not let Via become late due to their freight train's fault. Now, a lot of people are waking up to what we lost. It reminds me of the fact that there is a new idea for ships - sails....

The line to Fredericton was abandoned by its freight owner. Keeping the ROW would have required the taxpayer to buy it. I understand rail-banking but it would be a stub line to city smaller than Barrie and beyond commuting distance to anywhere else. No doubt they deserve it though.