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Vaughan Centre Bus Terminal

ViveleCanada

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@ViveleCanada What was the ridership like?
If you're referring to the ridership of bus traffic feeding into the station, then overall I've seen a steady increase during the rush hour period from VISUAL observations alone (we'll get a more accurate picture once the YRT releases official numbers for 2019). In comparison to last year, the 10 has slowly been building up ridership during the rush hour period and the 20 is consistently packed throughout the majority of the weekdays. South of highway 7, the 20's ridership dips significantly so I'm still surprised the YRT still runs the 20's full 14 minute frequency along the entire length of the route. The ZUM, I would assume, has the highest ridership of all the bus lines serving the station as its a common sight to see a horde of passengers waiting for it in the VIVAstation. In general, along highway 7, the ridership of ZUM seems to perform phenomenally with there being large crowds waiting at the Weston and Ansley Grove stops. VIVA Orange still performs terribly outside of rush hour (I typically get the bus to myself around noon on weekdays), but at least the rush hour ridership seems to have increased and it will probably increase again once the rapidway construction wraps up. With York not striking this year, there should be an increase in ridership along the new extension in general as the majority of York students seem to put up with the double fare and just transfer at VMC rather than take the 20 south and do the 10 minute walk to campus from Pioneer Village (this pretty much proves that uni students are terrible at saving money).
 
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Neutrino

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If you're referring to the ridership of bus traffic feeding into the station, then overall I've seen a steady increase during the rush hour period from VISUAL observations alone (we'll get a more accurate picture once the YRT releases official numbers for 2019). In comparison to last year, the 10 has slowly been building up ridership during the rush hour period and the 20 is consistently packed throughout the majority of the weekdays. South of highway 7, the 20's ridership dips significantly so I'm still surprised the YRT still runs the 20's full 14 minute frequency along the entire length of the route. The ZUM, I would assume, has the highest ridership of all the bus lines serving the station as its a common sight to see a horde of passengers waiting for it in the VIVAstation. In general, along highway 7, the ridership of ZUM seems to perform phenomenally with there being large crowds waiting at the Weston and Ansley Grove stops. VIVA Orange still performs terribly outside of rush hour (I typically get the bus to myself around noon on weekdays), but at least the rush hour ridership seems to have increased and it will probably increase again once the rapidway construction wraps up. With York not striking this year, there should be an increase in ridership along the new extension in general as the majority of York students seem to put up with the double fare and just transfer at VMC rather than take the 20 south and do the 10 minute walk to campus from Pioneer Village (this pretty much proves that uni students are terrible at saving money).
No I meant TYSSE between Sheppard West and VMC.
 

ViveleCanada

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No I meant TYSSE between Sheppard West and VMC.
In that case, the extension will probably see an increase due to there being no York strike and GO now forcing students to make a transfer onto the subway. Highway 407 will definitely see a jump in its ridership figures from my observations of seeing large hordes of passengers alighting there on the weekdays. With the commute to Toronto from Vaughan being incredibly horrendous, its a typical sight during rush hour for the trains at VMC to be filled with passengers dressed in business attire. The PPUDO area at VMC is close to bursting at rush hour with cars lined up on both sides along New Park Place which is just made worse by the bus passengers trying to cross the street to the station. This has also made VMC very animate so its a shame there are no local businesses in the area, otherwise it could be a much more appealing place to spend time in. Pioneer Village also gets a decent amount of bus riders transferring onto the subway. Naturally, York University's ridership remains uncontested from any other TYSSE station. I've also seen a decent amount of passengers transfer onto the ZUM at York University rather than at VMC, which is probably for the obvious reason that Highway 7 is largely jammed up inside of Vaughan. I can't comment on Finch West or Downsview Park as I rarely go south of York University (from all my experiences, Downsview Park is pretty dead in the off peak).
 
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Leo_Chan

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The PPUDO area at VMC is close to bursting at rush hour with cars lined up on both sides along New Park Place which is just made worse by the bus passengers trying to cross the street to the station.
I'm still disappointed that they changed the bus terminal from this design with a ppudo area:
 

ViveleCanada

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Still no exact opening date, but they have at least narrowed it down to the month of November (probably after the November 3 service change as there's no mention of any changes to the 10, 20 or 26). Once this opens, I believe that essentially wraps up all TYSSE related projects (minus any warranty works).
SmartCentres Place Bus Terminal opening in November
 
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Reecemartin

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Surprised it's not posted, will be open Nov 3, only about 2 YEARS late!

Inside scoop is that it will open well in time for the September 2019 school rush.
Oof

Ridership inside appears weak... it’s still closed.
The curbside, unprotected stop for the 20 and 26 was pretty busy though, as young people were headed to Vaughan Mills and Wonderland yesterday evening.
I happened to go up for a look, and now understand that the tardy terminal is to open in November...
Nothing confirmed here, however: http://www.vivanext.com/project_TerminalVaughan
Indeed, this large terminal actually seems somewhat justified given that Vaughan does have those two attractions and having a nice terminal for transit users going to them does seem like a wise choice.

A question, how is the development in the area?
 

ViveleCanada

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Surprised it's not posted, will be open Nov 3, only about 2 YEARS late!



Oof



Indeed, this large terminal actually seems somewhat justified given that Vaughan does have those two attractions and having a nice terminal for transit users going to them does seem like a wise choice.

A question, how is the development in the area?
The opening was posted in the YRT/Viva Construction Thread, a bit of an odd choice for it to first be posted there. Development in Vaughan resembles that of Dubai's heydays, but with towers spurting out of grassy flats and big box stores instead of sand dunes (it looked slightly ridiculous when Expo City towered over acres of parking lots before the subway opened). The exteriors of: YMCA, The Met and Expo City 3 & 4 has been completed and they have moved onto fitting out the towers while Transit City continues its ascent. A couple of signs have also popped up in the empty lots nearby announcing the development of Icona and Block 3 (you can look on UT's map to get more info on them). An evening skyline view from the Portage Parkway Bridge over Highway 400, October 11, 2019.
210502

The SmartCentres Place Bus Terminal itself is set to be surrounded by development in the next few years with the YMCA flanking its west and Transit City 1-5 towering above its north and east sides and this doesn't mention the several other projects set to take shape in the coming years. They have also been constructing the grid road layout, as outlined in their master plan as you can see in the above photo (the road at the very bottom of the photo with the yellow excavator is the southern extension of Applewood Crescent). The pedestrian atmosphere still needs to mature as once you walk a block away from either Highway 7 or the VMC station area, it ends up feeling much like typical suburbia. To no surprise this also means that cars still very much dominate in Vaughan with significant amounts of parking still present in the area and SmartCentres recently opening a new parking lot just east of the main entrance to VMC; probably to compensate for the lost parking due to Transit City 4 & 5. I wouldn't recommend parking at VMC anyhow as the lots fill up by 8 at the latest on the weekdays. I used to be one of those cynics who thought that VMC would go the way of Sheppard Avenue with little development to justify a subway, glad to be proven dead wrong in this case. I can see Vaughan growing much faster than Mississauga with the current speed of development and will hopefully be an attractive candidate for decentralizing the Toronto CBD to allow for more reverse commuting patterns (or at least reduce the trips into Toronto).
 
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Transportfan

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I've also seen a decent amount of passengers transfer onto the ZUM at York University rather than at VMC, which is probably for the obvious reason that Highway 7 is largely jammed up inside of Vaughan.
You must be referring to transfers to the 501A via the 407. I didn't get it at at first why anyone wouldn't want to stay on the subway all the way to VMC. I wonder if the 501 will be cut back to not serve Vaughan and the 501A will also serve 407 station eventually?
 

ShonTron

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You must be referring to transfers to the 501A via the 407. I didn't get it at at first why anyone wouldn't want to stay on the subway all the way to VMC. I wonder if the 501 will be cut back to not serve Vaughan and the 501A will also serve 407 station eventually?
During weekdays, there are more 501A/C buses to York than to VMC. The time differential and higher frequency makes up for the slightly longer walk to/from the subway. I don't think Brampton is interested in getting rid of the direct York U service. That's been a major reason for its ridership growth. I don't get why YRT didn't try harder to run a few buses to campus, apart from frugality (the proposed 100 route would have stopped at the old VivaStation, among a few other routes.)
 

ViveleCanada

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You must be referring to transfers to the 501A via the 407. I didn't get it at at first why anyone wouldn't want to stay on the subway all the way to VMC. I wonder if the 501 will be cut back to not serve Vaughan and the 501A will also serve 407 station eventually?
Seriously doubt they would cut back from VMC given that their development plan still indicates they will run a continuous service on Queen st/Highway 7 well into the future. Right now, I see too much traffic going between Brampton and Vaughan for them to really consider cutting back the service (ridership between Brampton and VMC also indicated in their master plan). VIVA Orange existence seems more or less to beef up frequency east of Martin Grove (and soon Highway 50).

I don't get why YRT didn't try harder to run a few buses to campus, apart from frugality (the proposed 100 route would have stopped at the old VivaStation, among a few other routes.)
I really can't figure out why they decided to do that as both York University and the TTC didn't seem to have a problem with them continuing service on campus until fare integration was in place (I must admit, the campus is much more peaceful without the horde of buses). At minimum, they should at least permit mobility plus vehicles on campus (the signs at York Commons also specifically state Mobility Plus vehicles are permitted to enter into the loop). Nowadays, the old northbound VivaStation at York University is used as a layover for ZUM buses.
 

Woodbridge_Heights

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I was always under the impression that York did not want busses on their campus.

I can see YRT/VIVA as wanting the focus to be on their jewel VMC and shortening routes does save some money.
 

Transportfan

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Seriously doubt they would cut back from VMC given that their development plan still indicates they will run a continuous service on Queen st/Highway 7 well into the future. Right now, I see too much traffic going between Brampton and Vaughan for them to really consider cutting back the service (ridership between Brampton and VMC also indicated in their master plan). VIVA Orange existence seems more or less to beef up frequency east of Martin Grove (and soon Highway 50).



I really can't figure out why they decided to do that as both York University and the TTC didn't seem to have a problem with them continuing service on campus until fare integration was in place (I must admit, the campus is much more peaceful without the horde of buses). At minimum, they should at least permit mobility plus vehicles on campus (the signs at York Commons also specifically state Mobility Plus vehicles are permitted to enter into the loop). Nowadays, the old northbound VivaStation at York University is used as a layover for ZUM buses.
Is the Vivastation itself still there?
 

smallspy

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I was always under the impression that York did not want busses on their campus.
The issue, specifically, was with buses in The Commons.

They would be happier with buses totally off of the campus, but they also realize that there is a need for some bus service to remain.

Dan
 

ViveleCanada

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Is the Vivastation itself still there?
No, besides the ZUM bus shelter, all the bus shelters have been removed. The concrete base and railings for the bus stops are still there though.

I was always under the impression that York did not want busses on their campus.
I can see YRT/VIVA as wanting the focus to be on their jewel VMC and shortening routes does save some money.
You may be correct on that front, but also wrong cause there seems to be a mother-load of bureaucracy in this issue. A letter sent from the "Keep York Moving" campaign to the Regional Clerk indicated in that York University may have been a large factor in ending bus service in the quote:

"We believe that York University’s request that there be no buses on campus after the opening of the subway had a strong influence on the insertion of this clause. Once York University provides a clear statement that YRT buses are invited back to campus permanently, we believe there might then be the political will on all sides to reopen the contract."

But, York University released this letter last year clearly stating (even bolding the statement) that they will welcome YRT back onto campus until fare integration is in place and released this letter a month later indicating that they were disappointed in both Metrolinx and the YRT for ending bus service onto campus without fare integration. On the TTC front, the day before YRT cancelled bus service, there was this quote from the TYSSE thread:

According to a TTC Customer Service Agent, this was a unilateral move by YRT which took many at the TTC by surprise. Yes there is that "Binding Agreement", but that agreement presumes that there would be fare integration by now, and the TTC wasn't going to force them to withdraw service without fare integration in place (plus if you read the agreement, it only mentions "north-south routes" anyway). If he's right, this is something that YRT wants to do (for whatever reason) and they're just using the agreement as an excuse.
Just to add on with GO Transit as they have a similar debacle at York University, The Star reported that York University was willing to accommodate GO buses inside the Commons if Metrolinx reinstated service from this article. I naturally assumed that they would also be fine with YRT buses as the old YRT terminal was out of the way from most pedestrian traffic, unlike the GO buses which stop in the commons (the article also states that York has plans to pedestrianize the commons so its surprising that they were so open to allowing GO back onto campus).

So my take is that the YRT (and by extension Metrolinx) are trying to cut corners in their budget and is using this as an excuse. Transit demand for universities is pretty inelastic so my best guess is that they don't have much of a motivation for spending extra money to convenience riders who are using their services either way (YRT puts an initial cost of $6.3 million and an annual cost of $4.1 million to reinstate bus service).

Another interesting point from the letter was that they were planning for a U-Pass at York that would have allowed for unlimited travel on Brampton Transit, TTC and YRT for $105-$110 a month (would have been packaged into a $420-$440 deal per a semester). However, they would have forced all students to pay for this so this sucks if you are a GO Transit commuter or live on residence. I personally would never vote for something like this despite benefiting the most from it (I find it too unfair that someone else is compensating for my trip with zero benefit to themselves).
 

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