nfitz
Superstar
Last time I checked, a government is not going to going to penalize a private corporation that does the same things that they do themselves.
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Vancouver Olympics
- Thread starter js97
- Start date
ganjavih
Senior Member
Do you have any evidence to support this claim? There is plenty of evidence that physical activity promotes mental health.
nfitz
Superstar
By my count, we have 2 more golds than we've ever won before. As much Silver as any other games, except the last when we had 3 more (but it's not over yet). The only complaint one can make is that we haven't won as many Bronze medals ...
... so is "Own the Podium" a better slogan than the older "Canada ... go for the bronze"?
... so is "Own the Podium" a better slogan than the older "Canada ... go for the bronze"?
jn_12
Senior Member
Speaking of ignorance...
Dan416
Senior Member
It is interesting to note that Own The Podium has actually succeeded: Canada is currently #1 in gold medals (#3 in total medals). Now let's debate the merits of ranking by golds versus ranking by total medals...
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
No, Own the Podium has failed. That's why Chris Rudge said ""You don't want to do the autopsy while the patient is still alive," Rudge said. "We will eviscerate this program to the nth degree when we are finished. We have a responsibility to the athletes to do that, to say this is what we did right, this is where we might have let you down. We have a responsibility to the Canadians that funded this program."
No apologies are owed because our athletes are doing an amazing job, but the goals and funding schemes of our Olympic program will be revisited.
She single-handedly won 4, and two were bronze. Eric Guay alone missed two medals by fractions of a second. If even a few athletes had gotten 3rd instead of 4th, our medal total could be much higher...and that was the explicit purpose of Own the Podium, to literally buy our way from 4ths to 3rds. It didn't work. If the funding boost is going to receive credit for bronzes, it must receive 'blame' for not turning 4th place finishers into impact players...that's the outcome when the sole purpose of the program is podium performance by designated elite athletes. Meanwhile, we won a gold and got two 4th places in events that weren't even held four years ago, which would bump our podum/top 5 success up by about 5% right there over Torino.
The point isn't whether our overall performance is better than Torino, it's whether or not Own the Podium worked. It clearly didn't, and that's a fact. With more events being held, with this being a home games with home crowds and comfortable surroundings, with Canadians being given extra spots, of course we're gonna do better. It's impossible to weigh the effect of the funding boost against the influence of competing at home...officials will have to see what happens in 2012 as well as compare Canadian funding against that of other countries.
Cross-country skiing requires ski and snow and little else...no more than cycling, really. There's almost as many arenas as tracks in Canada, but skating--->hockey for most people. The question is should we nudge more people into the skating--->speed skating path, or how much should we spend to get recreational snowboarders into streams that lead to medals, and so on. Should Canada expend resources trying to foster a cross-country skiing culture? As far as balancing Olympic and fitness goals, the ideal might be to push for involvement in sports that are relatively easy and cheap to support and have medals at stake...the lowest hanging fruit might be cross-country skiing since it - and biathlon, which requires good skiiers - has many medals up for grabs and is something Canadians could respond well to. It's much harder to make a national fitness program argument for ski jumping, or archery, or luge, or sailing, etc., even though pumping money into those more niche sports could yield many medals.
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jn_12
Senior Member
Klassen played a part in 5 medals. Our Team Pursuit team did not medal this time around, so you could argue that a healthy Klassen would have probably been a part of that team, and maybe they win because of it. To ignore it doesn't acknowledge that when Own the Podium's golas were set, Long track targetted medals in 7 events (they won in 4). You don't think Klassen was expected to contribute significantly there considering everyone thought after 2006, she'd be even better in 2010? There are 9 events left. Theoretically, let's say we won 9 medals (we won't, but just saying), that would put us at 30. Considering the COC's goal was 35 (stated as what they felt was needed to finish1st), You could argue Klassen was the difference. Yes, obviously some of those 4ths and 5ths could have made up that gap too, but you have to expect that some athletes will finish 4th and 5th. It's just the way of sport.
I agree, but I think we have a huge resource in our pool of hockey players. Not all of them will become pros (I didn't due to an injury) but the ones that play at an elite level can transfer that athleticism and the skills they've learned there to other sports. Perhaps if I had been told when i was 16, "listen, your injury might not allow you to continue into professional hockey, but here are some other options, like speed skating or some of the sliding sports. Come try them out." Perhaps I would have changed streams to another event. Hell, reading about Montgomery's story where he literally found an event that would be easiest for him to get good at to get to the Olympics, I'm kicking myself that I didn't look for an alternative when I decided not to pursue a professional hockey career. Having kids become speed skaters right from the start is certainly better than having them convert their hockey stride when they're 16, but it's better than nothing. We need to come up with a way to guide those athletes to other sports. We do it with sprinters, but we need to find a way to do it elsewhere.
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nfitz
Superstar
How can you possibly say that? We are leading on the gold medal count with 12 medals to 10 for the next closest country. We are assured 25 medals already, which is more than we have ever one in any Olympics before. Compare to the last Canadian Winter Olympics when we won 0 gold medals.
Sure, we didn't win every event, and the United States has out done us in bronze medals ... but I'm just shocked that one would consider it a failure.
There is glass half full and there is glass half empty; but here we have the glass is very full, but there aren't enough ice cubes ...
jn_12
Senior Member
If any athlete at any point stated their goal was gold, and they didn't get it they should be ashamed of themselves. Jennifer Heil should be ashamed of herself. What a horrible failure she is. Her explicit goal was to win gold and she failed. She should entirely reconsider her training, her coaches, her routine, her skis, everything. Same goes for Kristina Groves. It sickens me how much of a failure she is. And don't even get me started with the women curlers. We should probably have a National Curling Summit to figure out what is wrong with Canadian Curling after that horrible performance. To think, they stated they wanted to win gold and then lost. Pathetic.
Oh by the way... 13 Golds is the record (set by the Norway in 2002 and USSR in 76). So with a win by the men's curlers and men's hockey team, we'll have set the record for most golds in an Olympics.
Oh by the way... 13 Golds is the record (set by the Norway in 2002 and USSR in 76). So with a win by the men's curlers and men's hockey team, we'll have set the record for most golds in an Olympics.
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jn_12
Senior Member
psst... there was a bit of tongue in cheek there.
nfitz
Superstar
Ah ... sorry about that ... with people taking real extreme positions that I just can't fathom, it's hard to see a humourous extreme position! Looks like we've got the gold in Curling ... so it looks like we'll tie the Norwegian record of 13 (which was also achieved by the Soviet Union in 1976) (though as the Norwegians had only 5 silvers in 2002 and the Soviets had only 6 silvers in 1976, we'd actually rank ahead with the 7 slivers right now ... and 8 if we only get 13 golds.
So we seem to have achived the best Winter Olympic result ever ... (notwithstanding the increase in total medals over the years).
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nfitz
Superstar
... uh-oh ... I may have spoke to soon!
jn_12
Senior Member
haha I was hoping my over-exaggeration would be obvious, so no problem.
I was also thinking about the gold vs. medals argument a bit more... I think the obvious point that one can make is to take it to an extreme:
Who wins the Olympics in the following scenario?
Team A: 30 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze
Team B: 0 gold, 0 silver, 31 bronze.
Technically team B has more medals, but clearly the team with more golds had a far better olympics. Yes, Own the Podium's goal was to win the most medals, but I can't see how anyone wouldn't take most golds over most medals (especially if it's a record number of golds). Another analogy, would you rather win 1 Stanley Cup or Super Bowl or whatever championship over the span of 10 years with no other success or lose in the finals every year for 10 straight years? If you pick the latter, you're basically okay with being the Buffalo Bills. Yes it's a bit of spin, but I think it's a pretty legitimate argument even if the one opponent in this thread says "NO! ONLY MOST MEDALS MATTER! I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY"RE MADE OF!"
I was also thinking about the gold vs. medals argument a bit more... I think the obvious point that one can make is to take it to an extreme:
Who wins the Olympics in the following scenario?
Team A: 30 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze
Team B: 0 gold, 0 silver, 31 bronze.
Technically team B has more medals, but clearly the team with more golds had a far better olympics. Yes, Own the Podium's goal was to win the most medals, but I can't see how anyone wouldn't take most golds over most medals (especially if it's a record number of golds). Another analogy, would you rather win 1 Stanley Cup or Super Bowl or whatever championship over the span of 10 years with no other success or lose in the finals every year for 10 straight years? If you pick the latter, you're basically okay with being the Buffalo Bills. Yes it's a bit of spin, but I think it's a pretty legitimate argument even if the one opponent in this thread says "NO! ONLY MOST MEDALS MATTER! I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY"RE MADE OF!"
MetroMan
Senior Member
jn_12, I think most of us understood your sarcasm 
I agree that most Golds is more important although we can't deny that the US has had a spectacular showing in these Olympics with all their Silvers and Bronzes.
That said, Canada has a guaranteed 26 medals (Hockey and Curling have guaranteed Silvers, good chance of Gold). In less than an hour, Canada could have 13 Golds with a win in Curling. We're closing in on 2nd place of total medals. With this all in mind, Own the Podium was indeed a success.
I agree that most Golds is more important although we can't deny that the US has had a spectacular showing in these Olympics with all their Silvers and Bronzes.
That said, Canada has a guaranteed 26 medals (Hockey and Curling have guaranteed Silvers, good chance of Gold). In less than an hour, Canada could have 13 Golds with a win in Curling. We're closing in on 2nd place of total medals. With this all in mind, Own the Podium was indeed a success.
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MetroMan
Senior Member
13 Golds medals!
a) Most ever medals won by a host country in a Winter Olympics. Previous was 10.
b) Matches most ever gold medals won in a Winter Olympics. Good possibility of beating the record tomorrow.
a) Most ever medals won by a host country in a Winter Olympics. Previous was 10.
b) Matches most ever gold medals won in a Winter Olympics. Good possibility of beating the record tomorrow.