afransen
Senior Member
I mean, he should have offered it in exchange for her conceding. I'm not sure it's going to be all that pretty if they have a dogfight over Pennsylvania.
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U.S. Elections 2008
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
Brandon716
Senior Member
She never endorsed John McCain.
Brandon716
Senior Member
Right now Hillary's advisors are telling her things she really shouldn't be saying in order to get more votes. What some people call narsicism or ego isn't seen as the same by many others. Hillary is a "can't keep me back" kind of politician. She will fight until the end for a win, but I don't think its a bad thing.
Barack Obama is fighting until the end as well, does that make him an ego-maniac? I think all Presidential contenders have some sort of ego or they wouldn't be in the business.
Obama has as much of an ego as anyone if you watch his speeches and his campaign rhetoric. I mean he practically states he can just walk into a room, and for the sheer fact that he's Obama he can make it all work. That's pretty ego-centric if you ask me.
But do I think he'd be a great candidate against McCain as well? Absolutely.
One thing that is happening in the Hillary campaign right now is that her advisors need to stop telling her to say stupid things that cost her points in a Democratic primary. That's what I see happening right now.
Barack Obama is fighting until the end as well, does that make him an ego-maniac? I think all Presidential contenders have some sort of ego or they wouldn't be in the business.
Obama has as much of an ego as anyone if you watch his speeches and his campaign rhetoric. I mean he practically states he can just walk into a room, and for the sheer fact that he's Obama he can make it all work. That's pretty ego-centric if you ask me.
But do I think he'd be a great candidate against McCain as well? Absolutely.
One thing that is happening in the Hillary campaign right now is that her advisors need to stop telling her to say stupid things that cost her points in a Democratic primary. That's what I see happening right now.
Brandon716
Senior Member
Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11
Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI
March 13, 2008—
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/
Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.
Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope."
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon. "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," Obama said in a recent interview. "It sounds like he was trying to be provocative," Obama told the paper.
Rev. Wright, who announced his retirement last month, has built a large and loyal following at his church with his mesmerizing sermons, mixing traditional spiritual content and his views on contemporary issues.
"I wouldn't call it radical. I call it being black in America," said one congregation member outside the church last Sunday.
"He has impacted the life of Barack Obama so much so that he wants to portray that feeling he got from Rev. Wright onto the country because we all need something positive," said another member of the congregation.
Rev. Wright, who declined to be interviewed by ABC News, is considered one of the country's 10 most influential black pastors, according to members of the Obama campaign.
Obama has praised at least one aspect of Rev. Wright's approach, referring to his "social gospel" and his focus on Africa, "and I agree with him on that."
Sen. Obama declined to comment on Rev. Wright's denunciations of the United States, but a campaign religious adviser, Shaun Casey, appearing on "Good Morning America" Thursday, said Obama "had repudiated" those comments.
In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
Click Here for the Investigative Homepage.
Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
Obama's Pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Has a History of What Even Obama's Campaign Aides Say Is 'Inflammatory Rhetoric'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI
March 13, 2008—
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/
Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God damn America."
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama's pastor for the last 20 years at the Trinity United Church of Christ on Chicago's south side, has a long history of what even Obama's campaign aides concede is "inflammatory rhetoric," including the assertion that the United States brought on the 9/11 attacks with its own "terrorism."
In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.
Rev. Wright married Obama and his wife Michelle, baptized their two daughters and is credited by Obama for the title of his book, "The Audacity of Hope."
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
Sen. Obama told the New York Times he was not at the church on the day of Rev. Wright's 9/11 sermon. "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," Obama said in a recent interview. "It sounds like he was trying to be provocative," Obama told the paper.
Rev. Wright, who announced his retirement last month, has built a large and loyal following at his church with his mesmerizing sermons, mixing traditional spiritual content and his views on contemporary issues.
"I wouldn't call it radical. I call it being black in America," said one congregation member outside the church last Sunday.
"He has impacted the life of Barack Obama so much so that he wants to portray that feeling he got from Rev. Wright onto the country because we all need something positive," said another member of the congregation.
Rev. Wright, who declined to be interviewed by ABC News, is considered one of the country's 10 most influential black pastors, according to members of the Obama campaign.
Obama has praised at least one aspect of Rev. Wright's approach, referring to his "social gospel" and his focus on Africa, "and I agree with him on that."
Sen. Obama declined to comment on Rev. Wright's denunciations of the United States, but a campaign religious adviser, Shaun Casey, appearing on "Good Morning America" Thursday, said Obama "had repudiated" those comments.
In a statement to ABCNews.com, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
Click Here for the Investigative Homepage.
Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures
Brandon716
Senior Member
For the record, it looks like such unsavory comments are being thrown around on both sides of the political aisle. Its really unfortunate.
Roy G Biv
Senior Member
What did you expect her to say, "I endorse John McCain"?
This is as close as you can get, and horrible to say. Don't think the GOP didn't add it to their bookmarks.
Brandon716
Senior Member
She is in a battle for her political life against Barack Obama. She made a comment because her campaign is looking like it may lose, yet still has a fighting chance.
Yes the words could have been better chosen, but she does not support John McCain and does not endorse John McCain. It was a cheap attack on Barack Obama because she wants to be McCain's primary opponent.
I don't see how you can believe she actually endorses McCain?
cacruden
Senior Member
Roy G Biv
Senior Member
Which is fine. There is a line that needs to be straddled, and personal ambition is on one side, and the good of the party is on the other. It's becoming pretty clear that Hillary is all about Hillary. She didn't need to pull McCain into it.
Do I think she actually prefers him over Obama? That is irrelevant. Her statement was as close to an endorsement as you can get, and it's not simply me deciding this. The media has called it an "endorsement" as well.
Hillary's negative campaign (I should say Billary, since the negativity started in South Carolina) was working for her. Obama is now starting to throw back. It's a skill that will be beneficial to him if/when he wins this thing, because we all saw how Kerry did when he took the high road.
FACT: Hillary is not going to win (barring a remarkable, unforseen collapse on Obama's end), and any excessive attacks from here on out will only piss off more super delegates.
Brandon716
Senior Member
Bill Clinton is also friends with George Bush Sr. Does that mean he was secretly rooting for Bush Sr. back in 1992 when they were running against one another?
Taking things out of context can be fun for coffee talk, but it doesn't make it true. But you are certainly entitled to an opinion.
BTW: Making a statement as if you know its the truth, then backing away from the statement by saying what you think is "irrelevant" is an interesting 180 turnaround.
Taking things out of context can be fun for coffee talk, but it doesn't make it true. But you are certainly entitled to an opinion.
BTW: Making a statement as if you know its the truth, then backing away from the statement by saying what you think is "irrelevant" is an interesting 180 turnaround.
Roy G Biv
Senior Member
Not even close to being comparable.
Did Bill Clinton publicly champion Bush over Brown or Tsongas? But like I said, the situation cannot be viewed as analgous, because that race wasn't even close.
Taking things out of context can be fun for coffee talk, but it doesn't make it true. But you are certainly entitled to an opinion.
BTW: Making a statement as if you know its the truth, then backing away from the statement by saying what you think is "irrelevant" is an interesting 180 turnaround.
You asked me if I believe that Hillary Clinton prefers John McCain over Barak Obama. I said that it is irrelevant if she does or not. What is relevant is that she publicly promoted John McCain over Barak Obama, and it's the YouTube age. She effectively handed over a juicy gift to the McCain campaign, while damaging the hopes of her own party. It doesn't matter what she really thinks. Election time is all about sound bytes and spin.
DENTROBATE54
Banned
Why is it whenever an oppressed person publicizes the truth about the "real" faults of so-called contemporary society, they're always condemned for it? Retribution is retribution and we have no right today to judge anyone who's antiestablishment when the US-led war effort has butchered hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, Afghanis and home-grown Muslim-Americans enduring god knows what in Gitmo.
This is a systematic pattern of behaviour that goes back millenia and to be lawded for a difference of opinion from the constrained limitations of the 'free' press is pitiful. Why would this association make Obama any less worthy or capable of becoming the next President of the United States? If anything it shows Obama considers possible all sides of an issue, not just what we're 'supposed to believe' as the one and true account.
This spooks me out no more than Creationist pushers trying to undermine Evolutionism in schools
.
Jayomatic
Active Member
Agreed and it also reminds me of the media coverage Ron Paul recieved when he basically said the same thing. Everyone made it out that he was some sort of enemy of america because he had a different view on things.
Prometheus The Supremo
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in the beginning, i thought ron paul would be a good candidate to stir up some shit and serious debate but when i heard this...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zz94-OrnXzE
i lost all faith in him. if you ignore reality, you're not fit for public office. i was really disturbed when he said he wouldn't let the government fund hESC research & would allow religion to be pushed on students in public schools if states wanted to.
Brandon716
Senior Member
This is Barack Obama's minister, he has been on the Obama advisory committee for his campaign until this point, and his own words speak for himself:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hZ38N8OUg3Q
At minute marker 1:25 if you start watching, the Reverend goes into the idea that HIV was invented by the US Government to kill black people. Note: I do not agree with Bill O'Reilly's views and do not agree with his style of reporting, but this was the same video that was repeated on many networks and this is the best copy I could find to summarize the statements this rediculous Reverend is saying.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQdOBtyuMN4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a9ZZFEuYmR0
Religion like this is a disease. Obama's team is far from perfect and has plenty of blemishes on his record.
Can't believe Barack Obama can associate himself with this kind of atmosphere. He didn't grow up in this environment, he made a conscious decision to become a part of this church. The church he commonly refers to that baptised him, married him, and one he's been with for over 20 years. And one where he made the minister an advisor on his campaign committee! I mean can't we cut the church/state mixing? Its bad enough it happened in the Republican party, now the Democratic party is playing the me-too syndrome on this issue.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hZ38N8OUg3Q
At minute marker 1:25 if you start watching, the Reverend goes into the idea that HIV was invented by the US Government to kill black people. Note: I do not agree with Bill O'Reilly's views and do not agree with his style of reporting, but this was the same video that was repeated on many networks and this is the best copy I could find to summarize the statements this rediculous Reverend is saying.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQdOBtyuMN4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=a9ZZFEuYmR0
Religion like this is a disease. Obama's team is far from perfect and has plenty of blemishes on his record.
Can't believe Barack Obama can associate himself with this kind of atmosphere. He didn't grow up in this environment, he made a conscious decision to become a part of this church. The church he commonly refers to that baptised him, married him, and one he's been with for over 20 years. And one where he made the minister an advisor on his campaign committee! I mean can't we cut the church/state mixing? Its bad enough it happened in the Republican party, now the Democratic party is playing the me-too syndrome on this issue.