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U.S. Elections 2008

Who will be the next US president?

  • John McCain

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Barack Obama

    Votes: 80 77.7%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 14.6%

  • Total voters
    103
She does not have to just win those three BUT she must also win the overall delegate count for those states by a ratio exceeding 60/40. Winning all three will be difficult, especially with the polls closing in those states .... but there is no way she will win by the percentage needed (unless Obama explodes).

What you say would theoretically be true if it weren't for superdelegates. She doesn't need a 60/40 win in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. All she needs is a simple majority vote.
 
What you say would theoretically be true if it weren't for superdelegates. She doesn't need a 60/40 win in Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. All she needs is a simple majority vote.

You will notice that recently superdelegates have started to break towards Obama, there is a reason for it (other than the just thinking he is the better candidate). Just imagine if Obama won the most states (massive lead), and the popular vote, and the most elected delegates, and lost because of the superdelegates? Can you imagine how the average black person on the street will view that? What about the massive pull of young voters (the future)? Can you imagine turning a lot of those into cynical angry people, because the "old politics" stabbed them in the back? Do you think most of the superdelegates are not aware of this scenario.... Yes there are some that will be stubborn and will vote for Clinton regardless of what there district supports, but most are politicians that are keenly aware of their own political future - a future that could be put into jeopardy by such an outcome.

A simple majority vote does nothing to narrow the delegate gap (including committed superdelegates) or the popular vote. Time is running out for her to get back to even if she does not win those states with a 60/40 majority.

Also remember the outcry by democrats because Gore won the popular vote but lost the election?
 
Nader's back
HOPE YEN

Associated Press
February 24, 2008 at 1:45 PM EST

WASHINGTON — Ralph Nader said Sunday he will run for president as a third-party candidate, criticizing the top White House contenders as too close to big business and pledging to repeat a bid that will “shift the power from the few to the many.â€

Mr. Nader, 73, said most people are disenchanted with the Democratic and Republican parties due to a prolonged Iraq war and a shaky economy. The consumer advocate also blamed tax and other corporate-friendly policies under the Bush administration that he said have left many lower- and middle-class people in debt.

“You take that framework of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized, disrespected,†he said. “You go from Iraq, to Palestine/Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, from Katrina to the bungling of the Bush administration, to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts.â€

“In that context, I have decided to run for president,†Mr. Nader told NBC's “Meet the Press.â€

Mr. Nader also criticized Republican candidate John McCain and Democrats Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton for failing to support full Medicare for all or cracking down on Pentagon waste and a “bloated military budget.†He blamed that on corporate lobbyists and special interests, which he said dominate Washington, D.C., and pledged in his third-party campaign to accept donations only from individuals.

“The issue is do they have the moral courage, do they have the fortitude to stand up against the corporate powers and get things done for the American people,†Mr. Nader said. “We need to shift the power from the few to the many.â€

Mr. Nader also ran as a third-party candidate in 2000 and 2004, and many Democrats still accuse him of costing Al Gore the 2000 election.

Mr. Obama spoke dismissively of Mr. Nader at a news conference in Ohio, referring to him as a perennial presidential campaigner.

“He thought that there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush and eight years later I think people realize that Ralph did not know what he was talking about,†Mr. Obama said.

Ms. Clinton called Mr. Nader's announcement a “passing fancy†and said she hoped his candidacy wouldn't hurt the Democratic nominee.

“Obviously, it's not helpful to whomever our Democratic nominee is. But it's a free country,†she told reporters as she flew to Rhode Island for campaign events.

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, speaking shortly before Mr. Nader's announcement, said Mr. Nader's past runs have shown that he usually pulls votes from the Democrat. “So naturally, Republicans would welcome his entry into the race,†the former Arkansas governor said on CNN.

Mr. Nader vociferously disputes the spoiler claim, saying only Democrats are to blame for losing the race to George W. Bush. He said Sunday there could be no chance of him tipping the election to Republicans because the electorate will not vote for a “pro-war John McCain.â€

“If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up, cloe down, emerge in a different form,†Mr. Nader said.
 
Nader is in the race? First I heard. If so, its totally sad.

BUT, on the superdelegate thing, what exactly is the national popular vote as it stands right now? Is Obama or Hillary ahead?
 
BUT, on the superdelegate thing, what exactly is the national popular vote as it stands right now? Is Obama or Hillary ahead?

The Wall Street Journal has alot of good info regarding the presidential race. Right now Clinton has a 256/187 lead on Obama from the superdelegates, largely comprised of Democratic National Commitee members and 81 Congressmen. However, many dels are already jumping ship though so sups may likely follow suit if Clinton doesn't win Texas and Ohio. There's also 274 undecided for her to worry about.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/retro-delegateList0802.html

Got Your Superdelegates
Added Up? Count Again
Blogs Notwithstanding,
About Half These Voters
Remain Uncommitted
By JACKIE CALMES
February 22, 2008; Page A6

Liberal groups and bloggers have been sounding alarms that Democratic Party insiders -- the so-called superdelegates -- could tip the presidential nomination to Sen. Hillary Clinton behind closed doors. MoveOn.org and Democracy for America are advertising and even raising money on the issue. "Will party insiders overturn your vote?" DFA asks recipients.

But the superdelegates aren't party bosses of old, and they are as split as the voters have been.

About half these free agents remain determinedly uncommitted -- in hopes the voters will decide the nominee soon. Those few who lately have taken sides are tipping to Sen. Barack Obama.

Contrary to the conspiracy theorists warning of backroom deals against the will of voters, these superdelegates have committed to the Illinois senator because voters in primaries and caucuses have given him 10 straight victories, and a lead in the separate pledged delegates won as a result.

New York's Sen. Clinton still leads in superdelegates, having signed up scores of them last year while Sen. Obama still was introducing himself nationally. However, her recruitments have not only stalled as she has been losing, but a few supporters have jumped ship. That is despite the best efforts of her husband, former President Bill Clinton, who, as with his wife, has long ties to many of the superdelegates.

The controversy could be moot if Sen. Clinton doesn't win the Texas and Ohio contests March 4 -- which she has predicted she will do. Should Sen. Obama in fact win, he could become the presumptive nominee regardless of delegate counts, Democratic strategists agree. Superdelegates might well coalesce -- but for him, not for Sen. Clinton.

Bill Clinton, campaigning in Texas for his wife, was blunt about the stakes to a Beaumont audience Wednesday: "If she wins Texas and Ohio, I think she will be the nominee. If you don't deliver for her, I don't think she can be."

Party rules created superdelegates in 1982 as a potential check against an unelectable nominee from outside the mainstream. These individuals, who can vote as they choose, include all Democratic members of Congress, governors, Democratic National Committee representatives from each state, and a few VIPs, including former Presidents Clinton and Carter. The 795 superdelegates this year constitute a little less than 20% of the 4,048 total delegates who will meet at the August 25-28 convention in Denver.

Republicans don't have superdelegates, but each state's party chairman and two Republican National Committee members are automatic delegates. Separately, many politicians win regular delegate spots.

Superdelegates emerged as potential kingmakers after Super Tuesday on Feb. 5, when neither candidate scored a knockout by sweeping those 22 contests or the earlier ones. Sens. Clinton and Obama have roughly split the pledged delegates to date, thanks to party rules that require states and other jurisdictions to award delegates proportionate to each candidates' vote. Even losers don't go away empty-handed, except in a blow-out.

Clinton advisers openly predicted after Super Tuesday that Sen. Clinton was in for a rough patch through February. They underestimated Sen. Obama's big numbers -- his 57% to 36% win in Louisiana was his smallest percentage in the 10-contest streak -- and thus the momentum he consequently picked up. The triumphs have meant not only more pledged delegates, but superdelegates in turn.

When the nominating contests got under way in January, about a quarter of the Democratic superdelegates were believed to be committed; the Clinton campaign claimed about a 120-delegate lead. That margin is shrinking daily: Sen. Clinton counts 258 superdelegates, and the Obama campaign had "179 and climbing" yesterday morning, a spokesman said. By day's end, it had 183, plus four others who don't want to be named.

While tallies of the pledged delegates vary, given states' arcane selection processes, the Obama campaign said its candidate has 1,199 to Sen. Clinton's 1,040, for a 159-vote edge separate from the superdelegates. The Clinton campaign said its count is similar. Both sides also agree that, with the contests remaining up to Puerto Rico's on June 7, neither candidate can reach the 2,025 needed for nomination by pledged delegates alone.

So Sen. Clinton's campaign has been predicting for weeks that she will win given her advantage with superdelegates. Her campaign calls them "automatic delegates," in view of the pejorative meaning that "superdelegates" has acquired. "By the time we get into early June, we...expect her to be able to clinch the nomination," Clinton adviser Harold Ickes told reporters Wednesday.

In contrast, Sen. Obama told reporters late last week that "whoever has the most pledged delegates at the end of this contest should be the nominee and...superdelegates should ratify that decision by the voters."

Yet a superdelegate from someplace Sen. Clinton won may be more interested in ratifying the decision of local voters. In fact, the Obama campaign has made that argument as well, suggesting that super-delegates in states or congressional districts that Sen. Obama won should support him. But some Obama superdelegates are from places that Sen. Clinton carried.

Among the latest Clinton defectors is state Sen. Dana Redd in New Jersey, who this week cited Sen. Obama's winning streak. A few previously uncommitted delegates also have pledged to Sen. Obama in recent days, including DNC members Margaret Xifaras of Massachusetts, a state that Sen. Clinton won on Super Tuesday, and Jason Rae of Wisconsin yesterday, along with Wisconsin's Reps. Steve Kagen and Ron Kind.

The Wisconsin congressmen cited Sen. Obama's big win in their state's Democratic primary Tuesday and Mr. Rae, a college student, noted the senator's overwhelming support among the state's young people. In a statement, he said that Sen. Obama "has inspired a new generation of voters to get active and energized in the political process."

In her statement, Ms. Xifaras said that if Sen. Obama "had just said those words about change, it would not have been enough." But, she added, his campaign has had done well on the issues, fund-raising and "reaching out through community-based organizers rather than just the same old political establishment."

"The 'supers' are breaking quicker than melting snow," said Donna Brazile, campaign manager for Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign. Ms. Brazile, a DNC member who is an uncommitted superdelegate, has been widely quoted for threatening to quit her party if superdelegates "decide this election." But yesterday she said she remains confident they won't have to.

Tad Devine, a veteran strategist of past campaigns, who is neither a superdelegate nor otherwise committed to a candidate, said, "I've always felt that even though we call them party leaders, super-delegates are in fact followers" -- of the popular votes.

Yet the pro-Obama bloggers' imagery of superdelegates as establishment powerbrokers poised to cut a pro-Clinton deal has taken wider root. That caricature has been stoked by the comments from Sen. Obama and his campaign, even as he was successfully recruiting superdelegates.

South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman Carol Fowler, herself an uncommitted superdelegate, decided to confront the issue. Saturday she began training for Democrats who want to be elected by party members to go to the convention as pledged delegates. When she referred to superdelegates, many of the 50 attendees scowled.

"I want you to think about this," she said she told them: If the state's two Democratic congressmen weren't superdelegates, they'd likely run for -- and win -- the delegate spots. "This whole system allows grassroots people to participate on equal footing with DNC members and members of Congress," she told them.

"Then they started nodding," she said. "That seemed to make sense."
 
Nader is in the race? First I heard. If so, its totally sad.

Yes sad, he is really beginning to look pathetic running over and over again and getting a smaller and smaller vote.


BUT, on the superdelegate thing, what exactly is the national popular vote as it stands right now? Is Obama or Hillary ahead?

Barack Obama 645,554
Hillary Clinton 452,590

Newsweek

An interesting sidenote on Texas - it is not necessarily based on the popular vote.

2/3 of delegates are assigned by voting within districts, but the number of delegates a district gets is based voter turnout in that district during the last election. If the district had a low turnout, then they get less delegates, if they had a high turnout last election then they get more delegates. Districts where there is a fairly large black population tended to have a much higher voter turnout (Obama is getting around 80% of the black vote recently). Districts with a large Hispanic population had a fairly poor voter turnout (Hillary's depending heavily on this group). So even if Hillary wins the popular vote, it is very likely that the delegates may not come with that popular vote overall. And even with the gain in popular vote - she is not likely to eat significantly into Obama's almost 200,000 vote lead.

1/3 of delegates are assigned in the caucus that starts after the polls close - and Hillary has almost been shutout of the caucus states since Obama supporters seem to be more motivated to go to caucuses and participate.

This makes Texas a very difficult state for Hillary.
 
Yes sad, he is really beginning to look pathetic running over and over again and getting a smaller and smaller vote.




Barack Obama 645,554
Hillary Clinton 452,590

Newsweek

An interesting sidenote on Texas - it is not necessarily based on the popular vote.

2/3 of delegates are assigned by voting within districts, but the number of delegates a district gets is based voter turnout in that district during the last election. If the district had a low turnout, then they get less delegates, if they had a high turnout last election then they get more delegates. Districts where there is a fairly large black population tended to have a much higher voter turnout (Obama is getting around 80% of the black vote recently). Districts with a large Hispanic population had a fairly poor voter turnout (Hillary's depending heavily on this group). So even if Hillary wins the popular vote, it is very likely that the delegates may not come with that popular vote overall. And even with the gain in popular vote - she is not likely to eat significantly into Obama's almost 200,000 vote lead.

1/3 of delegates are assigned in the caucus that starts after the polls close - and Hillary has almost been shutout of the caucus states since Obama supporters seem to be more motivated to go to caucuses and participate.

This makes Texas a very difficult state for Hillary.

That number isn't right, I'm talking about national popular vote for the primaries. There were millions of voters in California alone. The number you quoted is from Wisconsin alone.

Those numbers are hard to find collectively.

I'm not about to click every primary state and add the numbers up manually. That's a reporter's job. ;)

LAZY MEDIA! :)
 
That number isn't right, I'm talking about national popular vote for the primaries. There were millions of voters in California alone. The number you quoted is from Wisconsin alone.

Your right - it did not look right - it was only showing from the last primary.

Here is the correction. The closest for popular vote that "could" be used as a guide is Total with Florida. In my opinion, you cannot change the rules mid-race so the delegates from these states should not be counted UNLESS a compromise is allowed which would rerun the primaries in these states. Florida there was no campaign, so that gives an advantage for a candidate that has a longer name recognition (i.e. when-ever Obama campaigns in a state, the popular vote for him goes up) - which means that seating those now is not a good option. Michigan is a non-starter - you cannot have an election where one person is not on the ballot.

Total (without Florida and Michigan)

Barack Obama 10,302,582
Hillary Clinton 9,378,355

Total with Florida

Barack Obama 10,878,796
Hillary Clinton 10,249,341

Total with Florida&Michigan (where Obama and Edwards were not on the ballot)

Barack Obama 10,302,582
Hillary Clinton 10,878,796

The Green Papers - 2008 Presidential Primaries, Caucuses, and Conventions
 
Florida's delegates should count. There was a planned election and all candidates were on the ballot. This is a national nomination process and there were nationally televised debates and coverage for over half a year before the election in Florida.

The DNC has no right to say that an entire state's delegation shouldn't count.

Michigan is a little different in that it only had Hillary and Kucinich on the ballot, although people who didn't like those options did vote a large percent for uncommitted. And its also true that Hillary chose to field her name, and Barack chose not to field his name on the ballot. They made choices, and Barack chose not to list his name.

The caucus and primary system is broken. If we're going to have a primary/caucus system to nominate delegates for a national party's nomination process, we need a unified date that all 50 states hold their primary or caucus on. And in my opinion, caucuses should be done away with if we're doing primaries. Or we should do all caucuses. Whatever it is, it should be the same.

But the system is broken and that's nothing new.
 

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