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TTC: Yonge North Subway Extension (Finch-Richmond Hill) (Unfunded/Planned)

unimaginative2

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Very interesting plans. They seem to be going with a very high stop frequency for a new route. It's not a bad idea, though it's funny that there'll be more frequent stops up in Thornhill than between Lawrence and Eglinton. I like the idea of the Bunker station; it'll probably be fairly well used, especially after the condos are done.

I do detect hints of the TTC's obsession with hyperspending on subway projects. An underground terminal at Steeles?! There's a gargantuan surface parking lot right there! It would cost the absolute tiniest fraction of an underground terminal to simply build a second floor deck for parking on the northeast corner of the mall lot and have the bus terminal below. If they want to get really ambitious, they could do it in partnership with a condo project above.
 

scarberiankhatru

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Quote-festy post but it's the easiest way to respond to multiple people.

I would have thought John/Centre would be higher priority then Royal Orchard, at least it connects further east and west, rather than Royal Orchard's one block connection to Bayview ... UNLESS they wanted to service the golf course (Bayview Country Club) via subway ... LOL

Currently, there is just one YRT route that would end at Centre, the 77 bus (which would probably see its ridership slashed by the Spadina extension). The John bus doesn't even reach Yonge. Even if Olde Thornhill gets a few infill low-rise condos, there'll only ever be about 100 homes in the surrounding area within walking distance because they're all mansions. There's probably more residents just in Royal Orchard's apartments than there will ever be at Centre. The few hundred riders in the Centre area will still be within a 10 minute walk of both Royal Orchard and Clark station.

Looks similar to Yonge Street at Glen Echo Road in Toronto, but with 2 golf courses instead of the hill. I guess if a station was put at Glen Echo, then they'll put one in at John/Centre.

There's substantially less at Centre than there is at Glen Echo, and Glen Echo would already be a sparsely used station.

Make Drewry/Cummer one continuous bus route and at Yonge people can be dropped off at the corner just like at Bayview and Sheppard. There's no need for a bus terminal here.

Cummer needs two or three times as much service as Drewry, though...a through route may not be operationally ideal. Maybe it's just me, but having mobs of people milling around the sidewalk waiting for buses seems like more of a problem than a solution. The bus terminal would be very modest and will only need 2 bays; sometimes it's nice to have a sheltered fare paid area to transfer and wait in and the bays could be built just off the street on the ground floor of a new development (like York Mills, but smaller and not as underground)...of course, I say this without knowing precisely where the station will be located, how deep it'll be, how much it'll cost, etc.

there seems to be room at both the north and south side of steeles for a new terminal to be built if they expropriate what is there. you go the esso station on the north and the horrible 2 story retail on the south plus that little ttc bus loop.

at clark, if there was to be a terminal, there's the gas station and body shop on the north side and again the 1 story shops to the south.

Does anyone have any documents for the redevlopment that's going to happen on Langstaff?

would roughing out a station there and then waiting until it becomes needed, like they did at north york centre, be a better choice?

There's really no shortage of places for a Steeles terminal...property on any corner could be bought and work. I wonder how many bus bays would be needed...it depends on how many York Region routes end there (the 2, perhaps more). I'd guess 9-10 bays would be needed and even 12 may not be too excessive.

Clark could also get away with a very modest bus terminal...would it ever need more than 3 bays?

If a huge parking lot is built at Bunker, why not build it now? It should be 3-4K rides a day even before the Langstaff redevelopment is included. I'd also like to see an updated plan for the Langstaff site across from Bunker...a quick google revealed this: http://www.markham.ca/markham/ccbs/...Development/April 4/Paclang Holdings Inc..htm but it is 2 years old and certainly not definitive. I'm sure I've seen a site plan but I don't remember where. A complex there should be quite popular...great subway and highway access, many units overlooking the cemetery (quiet neighbours), but I hope they're planning more of a community than an equivalent complex like ParkPlace next to IKEA.
 

299 bloor call control.

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Addressing a few points:

-The only stations with bus terminals will be at Steeles and Richmond Hill Centre. The rest will be line stops with only pedestrian entrances, with the exception of Bunker, which would also have PPUDO facilities.

-They moved the station up to Royal Orchard, versus Centre, to capture more of the residential at Royal Orchard and there was a fair amount of opposition to building a station within the historic district

-The underground terminal at Steeles is just one option. Personally though, I prefer it though - I'd rather see that land all freed up. This is something that needs to be built with the subway, not years later. I think they have overestimated how big it needs to be though and hope to see that the terminal is scaled down... 28-bays? That's ludicrous.

-TJ.. Bayview doesn't allow commuter parking. People who park there are ignoring the NO TTC COMMUTER PARKING sign (unless that's changed since the last tiem I was up there). The Fairview parking lot, however, was a devleopment agreement with the mall owners, as is Yorkdale. I wouldn't be surprised if the owners of the Silvercity lands jump at the opportunity to redevelop with the subway... that land is grossly underutilized.... which workshop group were you in, by the way?

-The Langstaff Gateway development is still under study. Peter Calthorpe is a main consultant on the project, so expect to see something amazing.
 

scarberiankhatru

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They want 28 bays at Steeles? What, 10 bays each for Steeles East and Steeles West?

And I suppose they really aren't thinking of putting Drewry/Cummer at the actual intersection...either Cummer buses will continue to run down to Finch or they'll have to go around a block or turn around in a parking lot. Or maybe Drewry will just receive a comical overabundance of service. I guess that's what happens when planning radii have more weight than common sense.
 

Chuck

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If only this proposal was around when I used to live up there. Getting to the city would have been so much easier!

I think that Royal Orchard is a great location for a subway station. All of the buildings there are towers in the park, and could easily have the back of the property developed, much like what is happening on Dunfield, Lillian, and Redpath at Yonge and Eglinton. Also, don't forget that for anyone living between Yonge, Leslie, John, and Highway 7, the local bus route which stops at Yonge and Royal Orchard would become the fastest way by far to get to the subway. Ridership on Route 3 could quadruple, which would turn it into a major bus route.

I'm still a proponent of keeping the subway directly under Yonge, and building a station underneath the 407. A transferway could be built in the median of 7 and the 407 to facilitate vertical transfers to the subway, and to almost eliminate delay to those routes. This is also well within walking distance of the new commuter lot south of the 407. Most of the big boxes north of the 407 are over 1 km from even the viva terminal, so you'd need to take a bus to the subway as it is.
 

adma

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I'm a little puzzled by the name "Richmond Hill Centre" for a location at the south edge of Richmond Hill...
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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I don't know the area, but the fact that one of the stops was bypassed because the area was full of mansions is pretty comical. It sounds like building a subway line to Mississauga Rd, which would also be ridiculous, but at least Mississauga Rd has UTM on it.
 

adma

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Actually, imagining that UTM didn't exist, it'd be more like bypassing Mississauga Road on behalf of Erin Mills and Credit Woodlands...
 

smuncky

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the 28 bay issue...i'm assuming that all yrt that go to finch will be using the steeles terminal as their end point on their route? i'm also assuming viva would stop at RHC as the local 99 would take care of local trips.

if that happens, then 5 bays would be needed for yrt routes 88, 23, 2, 99 and 91.

the 5 clark bus could terminate at clark station and do a loop there.

for the 77, instead of going all the way to steeles, it could drop off people at the clark station and continue the loop on clark the way it does on its sunday route via clark and new westminster back to promenade mall.

as previously mentioned, 3 royal orchard would continue as usual.
 

TJ O'Pootertoot

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Does anyone have any documents for the redevlopment that's going to happen on Langstaff?

i rememeber from an earlier viva/yrt document showing that they wanted to store future LRV's in those lands but i guess thats changed.

The plans for a Viva facility got canned last year - everyone realized they had bigger fish to fry.

If you scroll down to Item 2 here there is all the info about what they are doing and where things are at (as of last year...)

There is no updated site plan precisely because the town saw all this coming down the pipe and decided to slam the brakes and come up with a specific, new plan for the whole 116-odd acres. The contract for Calthorpe to do a master plan came down in May and should be ready next year, I think. I agree, it will be something to see and probably unlike a lot of what we've seen in the suburbs, even post-Places to Grow.

Other notes...

-299, I wasn't at the Aug 26 meeting but I was at last month's. Group 2, I think. I'm a very undercover, incognito kind of dude...

-Good point on the parking @ Bayview. I visualized all the barriers and forgot that they are anti-TTC parking! Fairview and Yorkdale do seem to provide models for what Centrepoint could do.
-I like the idea of hiding the Steeles stop under a condo, as at York Mills. Any of the corners is really good for that, particularly the west corners which include a mall parking lot corner and a lame strip mall besides a vacant Chapters store.
 

khristopher

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I just can't get over the fact that we're talking about building a subway out of Toronto to yet another smaller city than Mississauga. It's so bizarre.

Richmond Hill (source: wikipedia):
Population (2006)
- Total 162,704 (Ranked 28th)

Vaughan (source: wikipedia):
Population (2006)
- Total 238,866

Mississauga (source: wikipedia):
Population (2008)
- Total 704,246 (Ranked 6th)
 

EnviroTO

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I just can't get over the fact that we're talking about building a subway out of Toronto to yet another smaller city than Mississauga. It's so bizarre.

I suspect that if:
- the CP rail line through Mississauga didn't exist, OR
- MCC was located at Dixie and Dundas that Mississauga, OR
- Hazel thought a subway was a priority, OR
- the Eglinton line was built to Renforth
then Mississauga would already have a subway. Unfortunately none of those four is true. The CP line which is expected to deliver all-day GO service stops at Kipling, Dixie, and Cooksville thus duplicating a large number of the expected stops along the subway route. The length of subway to be built is larger than the other routes getting funding. Mississauga council has shown little desire to plan a subway, fund a subway, and make land use plans to support a proposed subway route. Lastly, the Eglinton Line has not been built which would be the route to dovetail most appropriately into the transit plans Mississauga has focused on.

The Yonge street extension has an obvious path, a region and city which supports it, doesn't run right next to an existing rail line, and is located much closer to the current subway end point.
 

Rainforest

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I wonder if Mississauga would benefit more from the REX-isation of the Milton GO line (including electrification and an underground diversion to MCC) than from the Bloor subway extention.

That REX line could then re-join the existing Milton track and provide fast service from MCC to both the east and west of Mississauga, as well as a much faster (than the subway) connection to Toronto's downtown.
 

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