TTC: Streetcar Network

[TransitBart]

We have had the go slow order for streetcar track switches for decades now. When will they "fix" the "problem", if any? If the "excuse" is the operating budget, then get the needed funds from the city, province, and/or federal governments to actually "fix" finally. No more budget cuts for operations on the TTC.

The excuse that the Flexity Outlooks are too long does not work for me. One Flexity Outlook is the same length as TWO PCC streetcars that were used during the rush hours on Bloor & Danforth, and later Queen.

Some of these PCCs are really hauling ass.

 

[TransitBart]

Queen’s Park needs to invest several billion dollars into modernizing the streetcar network. The TTC and City and broke. Drawing blood from a stone will bare no fruit.

The streetcar network is as important as any subway line, and critical for the vitality of our regional and national, so I don’t see why this should be an issue for QP. Just drop several billion dollars into the network and get the job done.

What does a billion dollars buy?

1. Tiger #1
2. Tiger #2
3. Etc…

 

[W. K. Lis]

Peter Witt streetcar's "dashboard"...

PCC streetcar "dashboard"...

From link.

Both without speedometers. With speedometers (from the CLRV's and onward), they could tell the operators to go 7 or 10 km/h through intersections, and run slowly, so as to not get in the way of the single-occupant autos.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If we had double-ended streetcars, we could have put in temporary crossover tracks west of Simcoe Street and east of York Street, and not use buses at all.

The length of current Toronto streetcars are limited to how many streetcars the LOOP could hold. Usually, one Flexity Outlook at 30.20 m (99 ft 1 in), or two PCC streetcars, or a Peter Witt streetcar and its trailer.

With a double-ended streetcar, we could use longer streetcars, using on-street or off-street crossovers,

"The longest single unit tram/streetcar vehicles currently in operation (and also the longest ones ever built so far, as far as I know) are Budapest’s 56 metre (184 ft) CAF Urbos articulated low-floor trams:"

From link.

 

[T3G]

What is the current status of the overhead conversion project? Is there an ETA on when we can fully switch to pantographs?

Lots of Flexitys with carbon build up on the rear end. Looks quite clatty.

 

[max]

What is the current status of the overhead conversion project? Is there an ETA on when we can fully switch to pantographs?

Lots of Flexitys with carbon build up on the rear end. Looks quite clatty.

@Steve Munro covered the project recently in this article: https://stevemunro.ca/2023/01/13/ttc-subway-streetcar-infrastructure-projects-2023-24/

There has been some progress since this report as Sunnyside loop was completed last week. As well, as noted in the article there are inaccuracies in the information the TTC provides. From my observations the intersections of Richmond & York, Richmond & Church, Adelaide & Victoria (active track only) and Adelaide & Church are pantograph ready. Tangent sections of Church a car would pass though to access some of those, as well as the intersection of Richmond & Victoria are incomplete.

Also, haven't been to Kingston road for a while but it appeared as if no work had started when I was there early January, despite buses running for some time to accommodate conversion work.

 

[drum118]

What is the current status of the overhead conversion project? Is there an ETA on when we can fully switch to pantographs?

Lots of Flexitys with carbon build up on the rear end. Looks quite clatty.

Still got to do King St from Dufferin to KQQR, Russell yard, Wellington as well a number of locations.

The rear of the cars have been a mess since day one and no idea when TTC will fix that area once pan is fully use for the whole system.

 

[DSC]

Still got to do King St from Dufferin to KQQR, Russell yard, Wellington as well a number of locations.

The rear of the cars have been a mess since day one and no idea when TTC will fix that area once pan is fully use for the whole system.

Steve Munro posted a map of the conversion a few weeks ago, from the January Board meeting. (I cannot see it on TTC website). As Steve notes, it is not 100% accurate! See: https://stevemunro.ca/2023/01/13/ttc-subway-streetcar-infrastructure-projects-2023-24/

 

[W. K. Lis]

To "save" money, they are stretching the change over as long as possible using the minimum number of workers as possible.

 

[DSC]

To "save" money, they are stretching the change over as long as possible using the minimum number of workers as possible.

Why does that save money? You need to stop making these kinds of statements with no evidence. A far more likely issue is lack of funds (or maybe the usual TTC lack of urgency! )

 

[drum118]

Steve Munro posted a map of the conversion a few weeks ago, from the January Board meeting. (I cannot see it on TTC website). As Steve notes, it is not 100% accurate! See: https://stevemunro.ca/2023/01/13/ttc-subway-streetcar-infrastructure-projects-2023-24/

View attachment 454082

I thought Roncesvalles could handle pans, but the map said no and need to check it out again. Same for King from Dufferin to Bathurst,

Not sure why they are not doing King to have it done when the 504 can resume service to Dundas West in the coming months. Same for Shaw. Surprised Church is not converted to hybrid now.

I am assuming Victoria was put off until they rebuilt the tracks this year, since it sees very few detours in the first place,

 

[DSC]

I thought Roncesvalles could handle pans, but the map said no and need to check it out again. Same for King from Dufferin to Bathurst,

Not sure why they are not doing King to have it done when the 504 can resume service to Dundas West in the coming months. Same for Shaw. Surprised Church is not converted to hybrid now.

I am assuming Victoria was put off until they rebuilt the tracks this year, since it sees very few detours in the first place,

The tracks on Victoria between Queen and Dundas are unusable, and have been for several years. Rebuilding will only happen after Ontario Line is done. Victoria south of Queen is now almost all converted along with Richmond/Adelaide/Church loop.

 

[max]

King from Niagara to Crawford still has older overhead, as well there are 3 signs for the King Street priority lane that hang very low. I believe that in pan compatible sections those signs have been removed. West of Dufferin there are a number of spots still to be done, though I did see the area west of Dowling where King curves with its contact wire totally removed earlier this week, so that's in progress.

As Steve noted in his article, the TTC produced map has multiple inaccuracies. I'm suspicious of the whole of Lakeshore and the Queensway being shown as under construction. As well, Shaw's wiring looked updated to my untrained eye, as did most of Roncesvalles north of the yard's north gate. On Roncy, there is a device attached to the SB overhead just south of Howard Park that creates a dead spot for pans, preventing the passage of any cars not using their poles. I suspect that was installed since cars could not pass the north gate with pans when those tracks were last in service. The north gate overhead has been totally removed and all remaining contact wire south of about Marion has been pulled over to the east side, presumably to save it from damage during construction.

 

[drum118]

The tracks on Victoria between Queen and Dundas are unusable, and have been for several years. Rebuilding will only happen after Ontario Line is done. Victoria south of Queen is now almost all converted along with Richmond/Adelaide/Church loop.

Forgot Victoria will be out of action for about 7 years and no rush to do anything on it pretraining to TTC north of Richmond at this time. Will need to do it around 2028/29 before Queen Reopens.

They need to do what they have to do on Roncesvalles before the 504 start running on it again.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Why does that save money? You need to stop making these kinds of statements with no evidence. A far more likely issue is lack of funds (or maybe the usual TTC lack of urgency! )

The TTC could have used the same workers who strung the overhead on the surface section of Line 5, but they would have to pay them. The more workers one uses, the more your pay.