TTC: St. Clair Streetcar Right Of Way

[W. K. Lis]

I really think the steeet parking on st Clair and other streets is the dumbest shit ever. Takes up a whole lane of the road and not moving cars at all. If somebody needs to ge tricked up or dropped off pull into the side streets. Also it doesn't even solve parking for people that want it because it doesn't even provide that many parking spots and theyre usually full.

I, unfortunately, still see people stopping on suburban arterial roads to let out or let in people on the arterial road, even in "NO STOPPING" zones. "NO STOPPING" includes stopping the car to let in or out people.

They can't seem to be able to drive into a side street or a parking lot to do just that and return. When I'm downtown and dropping off someone, I always pull into a side street to do just that.

 

[JasonParis]

I really think the steeet parking on st Clair and other streets is the dumbest shit ever. Takes up a whole lane of the road and not moving cars at all. If somebody needs to ge tricked up or dropped off pull into the side streets. Also it doesn't even solve parking for people that want it because it doesn't even provide that many parking spots and theyre usually full.

It will be a sign of Toronto finally growing-up when we get there. Let's remember that Ana Bailão won her Councillor seat on this very issue.

 

[Steve X]

I really think the steeet parking on st Clair and other streets is the dumbest shit ever. Takes up a whole lane of the road and not moving cars at all. If somebody needs to ge tricked up or dropped off pull into the side streets. Also it doesn't even solve parking for people that want it because it doesn't even provide that many parking spots and theyre usually full.

At that time, people were already pissed off with the reduced number of spots. Eventually the city could ban parking but they also need the business to thrive so taxes can be paid to the city. Having every business shut their doors is a lot of lost income.

 

[ADRM]

At that time, people were already pissed off with the reduced number of spots. Eventually the city could ban parking but they also need the business to thrive so taxes can be paid to the city. Having every business shut their doors is a lot of lost income.

But that's a misnomer: There's no evidence to prove that removing parking directly in front of a business -- especially in areas where there is ample parking supply nearby -- has independently negative effects on revenue.

 

[Red October]

The problem is that business owners apparently have no idea where their business comes from.

 

[ADRM]

The problem is that business owners apparently have no idea where their business comes from.

Exactly. And the elimination (or the thought thereof) of parking immediately in front of their businesses is the convenient whipping boy.

 

[Steve X]

But that's a misnomer: There's no evidence to prove that removing parking directly in front of a business -- especially in areas where there is ample parking supply nearby -- has independently negative effects on revenue.

The shops on Korean town are claiming the Bloor bike lanes removed parking and is killing their business. We need to wait for a report at the end of next year to see if that's true. If so, apparently some people are that lazy.

 

[crs1026]

But that's a misnomer: There's no evidence to prove that removing parking directly in front of a business -- especially in areas where there is ample parking supply nearby -- has independently negative effects on revenue.

The qualifier is important. It is rare to find a parking spot right in front of the store you are aiming at, but if people don't see an obvious parking opportunity within the area, they blow on by.

There's a one-block stretch of Bloor near Royal York that has no on street parking, but the same strip of parking in the strip behind it as neighbouring blocks. My unscientific observation of stores coming and going is that the stores in the no-parking stretch struggle and go out of business much more frequently than those on the adjacent blocks that have parking. Overall, there is ample parking in the area so objectively there is no disadvantage, but it 'feels' different - and I say this as someone who walks to Bloor and seldom parks there at all.. Possibly the rents are different, and the entrepreneurs that choose the no-park stretch are living closer to breakeven (or below it as they are in startup mode). Sample size of one but there may be some validity to the concern.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

There's a one-block stretch of Bloor near Royal York that has no on street parking, but the same strip of parking in the strip behind it as neighbouring blocks. My unscientific observation of stores coming and going is that the stores in the no-parking stretch struggle and go out of business much more frequently than those on the adjacent blocks that have parking.

This impact should be visible in commercial lease rates for the area being lower than those immediately surrounding blocks. The huge franchises have tons and tons of research of what works and what doesn't (for them) and typically control lease rates; of course they also hedge through profit sharing with the landlord.

As far as St. Clair is concerned, businesses there got clobbered by gentrification; landlords make out like bandits. The street design has some technical challenges still but economically it was a massive success.

 

[muller877]

The qualifier is important. It is rare to find a parking spot right in front of the store you are aiming at, but if people don't see an obvious parking opportunity within the area, they blow on by.

There's a one-block stretch of Bloor near Royal York that has no on street parking, but the same strip of parking in the strip behind it as neighbouring blocks. My unscientific observation of stores coming and going is that the stores in the no-parking stretch struggle and go out of business much more frequently than those on the adjacent blocks that have parking. Overall, there is ample parking in the area so objectively there is no disadvantage, but it 'feels' different - and I say this as someone who walks to Bloor and seldom parks there at all.. Possibly the rents are different, and the entrepreneurs that choose the no-park stretch are living closer to breakeven (or below it as they are in startup mode). Sample size of one but there may be some validity to the concern.

- Paul

The huge Green P parking lots in Bloor West and Kingsway is partly the reason for the success of these neighbourhoods. Yes the subway really helps...but these stores have to compete against Walmart, Loblaws, etc. all 5-10 minutes away. And they are doing it successfully. On weekends these lots are full and families are shopping along Bloor. A great vibe and a model for other communities.

A positive for expropriation (along with a cheaper and less disruptive way to build a underground transit line)

Now I just wish they removed that center median and made the sidewalks wider in the Kingsway (which would allow for patio's for all the restaurants)

 

[am29]

I think the solution to this is by removing on street parking it may force the open market to developing parking structures as viable investments. Having storied parking structures close to areas with main road businesses would actually help their businesses. For example on the danforth let's say for every station stop their was one large parking structure and they got rid of the street parking it would help traffic flow and create a more vibrant pedestrian realm. I'm no city planner so I admit I'm probably wrong but idk we should explore alternatives at least.

 

[crs1026]

As far as St. Clair is concerned, businesses there got clobbered by gentrification; landlords make out like bandits. The street design has some technical challenges still but economically it was a massive success.

Despite good parking, Bloor West and the Kingsway are both increasingly fragile for the same reason.....landlords raising the rents to very high levels. The smaller "niche" stores that give the areas so much character and allure are getting pushed out. Some very popular and well patronised stores - the Book Mark being one good example - closed due to rents. I doubt that the City has any effective way to intervene in this but the landlords may well be killing their golden goose.

- Paul

 

[TransitBart]

Despite good parking, Bloor West and the Kingsway are both increasingly fragile for the same reason.....landlords raising the rents to very high levels. The smaller "niche" stores that give the areas so much character and allure are getting pushed out. Some very popular and well patronised stores - the Book Mark being one good example - closed due to rents. I doubt that the City has any effective way to intervene in this but the landlords may well be killing their golden goose.

- Paul

I miss the Book Mark.

 

[Palma]

The shops on Korean town are claiming the Bloor bike lanes removed parking and is killing their business. We need to wait for a report at the end of next year to see if that's true. If so, apparently some people are that lazy.

I find that hard to believe. The amount of pedestrian traffic on Bloor is tremendous as is the density around the area. I am thinking around the Bloor and Bathurst area

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The shops on Korean town are claiming the Bloor bike lanes removed parking and is killing their business. We need to wait for a report at the end of next year to see if that's true. If so, apparently some people are that lazy.

Hundreds of pedestrians walk on downtown Bloor Street, but these shop owners mean to tell us that the removal of a dozen parking spaces killed their business? Give me a break.

I'm betting it's just a season downturn in business.