Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[nfitz]

For the record many of the developers inthe GTA are Asian and Indian descent.

I doubt that Doug Ford knows that ... looking at his campaign donations. And looking at those he'd had past contacts with.

But in the same breath he's committing to building over 30 km of new subways citywide.

None of which is Sheppard which at least had a full funding commitment for 13 km, even if one didn't like the technology.

Also, that "30 km of new subways" is only 30 km if light rail is now subway.

And if so, that's less km than than had been committed before he was elected, with later delivery dates on some lines (well he has promised to accelerate the Relief Line by 2 years - which seems impossible as going back to square 1 on design and making it PPP should delay it by 4 years ... so surely reality is, that he is lying ... again.

And hang on ... as he's reduced the funding envelope for this to $11 billion - that's no where near enough to cover the cost.

Committed? It's quite clearly just meaningless words. They've carefully moved the funding commitment for the one line that should have had shovels in the ground before the next election, so that it's not going to have any signficant spending (or likely even contracts) until after the next election.

It's a shell game - I'm surprised that anyone - especially in Scarborough - is falling for such an obvious con.

 

[11th]

Because the replacement of the Scarborough RT was a grade-separated LRT and he lied his pants off and complained streetcars would be rolling through Scarborough's streets. And that's just one example.

If "streetcars" were to roll through Scarborough's street, it'd be through SELRT and Crosstown, but not the SRT. He lied about the SRT, but doing so allowed the uninformed to take a closer look at other parts of the Transit City plan - which really were "streetcar" lines to the untrained eyes .

 

[Neutrino]

I suppose it might be optimistic for straight white-male developers

Previously you called yourself a conservative, but you sound much more like a university leftist.

 

[44 North]

If the Tories can pull this off...

 

[Rainforest]

None of which is Sheppard which at least had a full funding commitment for 13 km, even if one didn't like the technology.

Essentially, Sheppard transit expansion is getting postponed in order to make fiscal room for the Relief Line.

And, that makes perfect sense. Relief Line is needed for the system stability, and has become very popular in the last 5-7 years.

Sheppard LRT is unpopular and is not very urgent; Sheppard subway is popular, but is expensive for the modest ridership forecast, and is not very urgent either.

And if so, that's less km than than had been committed before he was elected, with later delivery dates on some lines (well he has promised to accelerate the Relief Line by 2 years - which seems impossible as going back to square 1 on design and making it PPP should delay it by 4 years ... so surely reality is, that he is lying ... again.

? Neither the Relief Line nor the Yonge North extension could be counted as "committed" before the recent provincial plan, as they had no funding at all.

To be fair, they are still "half-committed", as the provincial offer doesn't cover the full cost, and the matching federal and city contributions are not confirmed as of now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Previously you called yourself a conservative, but you sound much more like a university leftist.

Doug is not a conservative, in any sense, so I see why @nfitz would move away from that.

 

[Neutrino]

Doug is not a conservative, in any sense, so I see why @nfitz would move away from that.

Agreed, he's not what a good conservative should be, but nfitz's words are way beyond just distancing oneself from Doug.

 

[OneCity]

Agreed, he's not what a good conservative should be, but nfitz's words are way beyond just distancing oneself from Doug.

These days we have:

Corporate Right
Progressive Right
Extreme (alt)Right
Corporate Left
Progressive Left
Extreme (alt) Left
Union Left

Currently Populist leaders who take stances issues shared by voters of any party are doing well as fronts for the Corporate wings benefiting behind the scenes. By 'good' Conservative I assume you mean the long lost Progressives with quiet leaders

The extreme (alt) groups are small groups which get alot of attention thanks to social media but not as relevant as some belive . Nfitz recent comments fits more in line with the rhetoric used by these groups on the Left.

More Progressive groups need to reach across party lines on big issues, rather then leaning towards the divisive extreme sides or may continue to struggle in this era

 

[syn]

Okay, if you say so. I didn't realize Karen Stintz, John Parker and Glenn DeBearemaker were "The Right" when they orchestrated the coup de'tat to wrestle away control of the transit file from Ford when the Memorandum of Understanding would have gotten us true fully grade-separated rapid transit from Mt Dennis to Malvern Town Centre.

They were the brainchilds of the present day McCowan alignment Bloor-Danforth extension, not Rob or Doug Ford. Rob Ford circa 2010 wanted a subway alignment up the SRT corridor much like the Glen Murray alignment which itself came to prominence later in 2013. You see? Isn't history fun? Everyone has had a hand in screwing up things for Scarborough, starting all the way back to the 1980s.

But as far as priorities goes, the order of things as they are now are likely the most fair: DRL, Yonge North, SSE, Sheppard with EWLRT happening somewhere concurrently with these other projects. If the Tories can pull this off and another gov't doesn't come along and cancel things, which why would they as this is actually a good plan, by 2030 there'll probably be shovels in the ground on all these projects.

Yes, isn't history fun?

Who canceled the Eglinton Subway Line that was already under construction?

Who canceled a shovel ready, fully funded, grade separated rapid transit line for Scarborough that riders could be using right now?

Who said:

"Transit City is over, ladies and gentlemen."

"the war on the car stops today."

"For too long, the city has focused on transit only. We will expand our focus to include people who use transit but also motorists, commercial vehicle operators, cyclists and pedestrians"

?

Anyone with a grasp on history would realize that city council had to nullify Ford as he wasn't fit for office.

It's quite strange that you're willing to give credit to the current Conservative government on transit based on plans. Nothing has been done. They've actually decreased funding to the TTC.

 

[Johnny Au]

Contrary to claims made by those of a certain political leaning, there has never been a war on the car.

Why then are there still so many car commercials (especially those for internal combustion engine ones) on radio, television, and on the Internet?

If there were a war on the car, the first step would be to charge an additional tax on advertising products that directly consume fossil fuels.

 

[Rainforest]

Contrary to claims made by those of a certain political leaning, there has never been a war on the car.

Technically, small alt-left groups make a rhetorical war on the car all the time. That war is totally ineffective (i.e. does not result in any meaningful policy changes), except those people amuse themselves.

 

[Rainforest]

These days we have:

Corporate Right
Progressive Right
Extreme (alt)Right
Corporate Left
Progressive Left
Extreme (alt) Left
Union Left

Currently Populist leaders who take stances issues shared by voters of any party are doing well as fronts for the Corporate wings benefiting behind the scenes. By 'good' Conservative I assume you mean the long lost Progressives with quiet leaders

The extreme (alt) groups are small groups which get alot of attention thanks to social media but not as relevant as some belive .

Interesting way to put it. Yes, this sounds about right.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Contrary to claims made by those of a certain political leaning, there has never been a war on the car.

Why then are there still so many car commercials (especially those for internal combustion engine ones) on radio, television, and on the Internet?

If there were a war on the car, the first step would be to charge an additional tax on advertising products that directly consume fossil fuels.

It's just political juice for people too ignorant to do their own research or too stuck up to actually understand what's happening in this city. Driving in Toronto (especially downtown Toronto) sucks, that's just a fact. People don't want to deal with:
— bicycles
— pedestrians
— streetcars
— cops
— absurd parking locations and costs
— traffic
— poor roads
— high gas prices
— bad drivers
— high insurance & maintenance costs
— the frustration & stress associated with driving
among so many other things. Most of which, are just byproducts of the economy of the city (and the country) or the nature of driving. They are just a result of living in Toronto, and people would rather pay "high" fares to use the TTC, and deal with the overcrowding, the occasional drunk guy, and the delays than deal with all the crap that comes with driving in the dense areas of the city. It's just not sustainable to keep or increase the number of cars in this city.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Agreed, he's not what a good conservative should be, but nfitz's words are way beyond just distancing oneself from Doug.

These days we have:

Corporate Right
Progressive Right
Extreme (alt)Right
Corporate Left
Progressive Left
Extreme (alt) Left
Union Left

Currently Populist leaders who take stances issues shared by voters of any party are doing well as fronts for the Corporate wings benefiting behind the scenes. By 'good' Conservative I assume you mean the long lost Progressives with quiet leaders

The extreme (alt) groups are small groups which get alot of attention thanks to social media but not as relevant as some belive . Nfitz recent comments fits more in line with the rhetoric used by these groups on the Left.

More Progressive groups need to reach across party lines on big issues, rather then leaning towards the divisive extreme sides or may continue to struggle in this era

Populism isn't the right in any sense. Doug has no principles and he doesn't follow conservative ethos at all. This has nothing really to do with the left. People who were conservatives prior to 2015 can look at Doug and know he's not one. He doesn't value education, his family is out there . This guy is not Mulroney, Clark or even Harper. Stop talking about as I am not really there. I'm talking about conservative principles, and Doug has zero. @nfitz can be extreme in general though.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Furthermore I agree with this subway and hope it gets built soon. In full @OneCity