Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[idc24]

I like your thoughts about connecting Line 4 to Wilson station. Having an interchange at Wilson makes a lot of sense for a few ways. First of all construction would be less disruptive to Line 1 at Wilson since it has lower passenger numbers than Shepppard West and also Wilson station which has been operating for 40 years without a major renovation is coming due to major renovations and easier access elevator upgrades before 2025. So an upgrade to the existing Wilson Station and brand new infrastructure to create a new underground Line 4 platform level. The other is that Wilson is located in close proximity to a whole bunch of new condos along Wilson and Allen Road. it is also near the Downsview Bombardier lands which I heard that are planning to be sold to developers.

 

[idc24]

A Line 4 western subway extension from Sheppard-Yonge would serve the relatively dense corridor of Wilson Avenue which is mainly mid rise with several proposals for growth espically in the area surrounding Wilson station. Their is more existing and possible density on Wilson than Sheppard in this area. After Allen Road, Sheppard W. unlike Sheppard E. becomes mostly low rise commercial and residential and Sheppard ends unceremoniously at Weston Road. while Wilson passes through the heart of Downsview, Humber Regional Hospital, the MTO complex, a Seneca campus and several retail centres and mid rise condos. Than Wilson becomes Walsh Avenue before becoming Albion Road.

The would pass under Sheppard Avenue W. until Bathurst where it would turn and run under Bathurst until Wilson where it would curve under into a Wilson Road alignment in the Armour Heights neighbourhood, the line would run underground along Wilson beneath the Allen Rd and connect with Wilson Station on Line 1. It would continue under Wilson, passing Dufferin, the Barrie GO line, Keele, Jane, hwy 400, and Weston Road.
Then the Line 4 alignment could emerge from its tunnel just after Weston and Walsh and cross the Humber river by bridge. then pass by at-grade where Pine Point Park is, then re-enter a tunnel to cross Islington and enter the former Sears warehouse lands in an underground alignment south of Rexdale Blvd. where a mixed-use development is currently proposed. Then the alignment could proceed underground or elevated towards Etobicoke North GO Station where a connection could be made to GO RER as well as possible VIA and UPX service.

This Line 4 extension could be fully designed while being completed in phases like the way Line 2 was completed in phases from 1966 until 1980 when Kipling and Kennedy opened.

 

[idc24]

The former Sears warehouse lands have huge potential for redevelopment into mid to high density residential and commercial. This site could be well served by a Line 4 west extension.

 

[Hopkins123]

That's an interesting suggestion, but I'd change two aspects:

1) Would consider changing the type of trains, to something smaller and with less imposing footprint, to reduce the construction costs. If we expect this line to never exceed 15,000 or 20,000 pphpd, there is little reason to spend money on infrastructure capable of carrying 35,000 or 40,000. Still fully grade-separated for speed, with wide station spacng, but not as expensive per km.

2) Don't really like to send it to Finch. The chance to share the TYSSE tunnel between Line 2 and Line 4 is gone. TYSSE could have been built with such sharing enabled, but it wasn't, and now it would be too expensive to connect Line 4. Thus, we would have to duplicate TYSSE and the Line 4 tracks going north-west in the same area, which is kind of low-density even for one subway line. Plus, the Line 4 extension would take decades to plan and fund, while Finch West LRT is nearly shovel-ready and I wouldn't want to stop it now.

Instead, I would connect Line 4 to the Spadina line at Wilson rather than at Sheppard West (former Downsview), then extend it further west along Wilson. West of Jane, it could swing to the 401 corridor and fast-track to Pearson (connecting to the Etobicoke North RER station en route).

That would be a faster connection to Pearson than going via Finch and Humber college. The northern route would be served by Finch LRT, while the Sheppard-Wilson crosstown line would fill the gap between Eglinton and Finch.

You just as well could postpone the Finch West LRT and extend the Sheppard Line westward to Humber College. Then talk of the line being underused or serving no purpose would end.

 

[Sandpit]

View attachment 137734

This brings the subway really close to a certain label company...

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

This brings the subway really close to a certain label company...

Where Highway 401 meets Highway 409

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Instead, I would connect Line 4 to the Spadina line at Wilson rather than at Sheppard West (former Downsview), then extend it further west along Wilson. West of Jane, it could swing to the 401 corridor and fast-track to Pearson (connecting to the Etobicoke North RER station en route).

Wilson Subway Station platforms on Spadina Line is itself elevated between the Allen Road Expressway (not an ideal place for a subway station to generate pedestrian traffic!),.... next level down is Wilson Road itself,... then new Subway line underneath would make this Wilson Subway Interchange station a 3-level change,... much like the current Kennedy Station (Bloor-Danforth Subway line and Scarborough LRT).

 

[Rainforest]

View attachment 137734

That's one of the options. However, I was thinking of staying under Sheppard till Wilson Heights (with the station at Faywood), then turning south and crossing under Allen, then running on surface alongside Line 1. The Line 4's Wilson station would be parallel to the Line 1 station. Might even use Spanish Solution, although that may be tricky if we begin using leaner trains for Line 4.

I'd expect that option to be cheaper than digging under Bathurst.

 

[Rainforest]

You just as well could postpone the Finch West LRT and extend the Sheppard Line westward to Humber College. Then talk of the line being underused or serving no purpose would end.

Finch West (current phase) starts from the Keele station. In order to replace that LRT with the Line 4 extension, first we would have to get Line 4 extended from Yonge&Sheppard to Keele&Finch; that's 8 km, perhaps 7.5 if some corners are cut.

Funding for that kind of extension is pretty much out of question for the next 10 years, no matter who wins this provincial elections, or the next elections. Meanwhile, Finch LRT is shovel ready.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

View attachment 137734

One of biggest issue of Sheppard West extension is crossing West Don Valley - require new bridge or deep tunnel dip under Don Valley West river. Now you're adding those sharp 90 degree subway turns at Sheppard & Bathurst along with Bathurst & Wilson will be difficult and really restrict where a subway station platform can actually be built to service those intersections.

Sheppard Subway Line 4 already has WYE subway turning tunnels onto Yonge Subway Line 1 - yes, eastbound train will actually have to reverse to service Sheppard-Yonge station!

Image looking north along Yonge at Sheppard:

So existing Sheppard Subway Line 4 would interline with Yonge Subway Line 1 between Sheppard-Yonge Station and Highway 401 where it heads west under Highway 401.

Now to cross the West Don Valley cheaply,.... use the "unoccupied" lower deck of Highway 401 Hoggs Hollow Bridge just west of Yonge Street,.... why does this sound familiar??? Oh, that Bloor Viaduct being built in 1918 with empty lower deck not being used until Bloor-Danforth line went in during 1960's!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogg's_Hollow_Bridge#/media/File:Hogg's_Hollow_Bridge_-_South.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogg's_Hollow_Bridge#/media/File:Hogg's_Hollow_Bridge_-_South.jpg
http://www.uerev.com/index.php?pageid=galleryimage&itemid=1051

Warning: Getting MTO to agree to anything is next to impossible,... under our current Premier,... but hmmmm,... anyone hearing "subway, Subway, SubWay, SUBWAY!"

New subway tunnels bored under Highway 401 until it reaches Wilson Ave just east of Bathurst,.. now Bathurst & Wilson will have proper subway station with straight platform below intersection.

 

[JSF-1]

I can't see them tunneling under the Don Valley West (Earl Bales Park), it would be just to cost prohibitive and could repeat the Lawrence East issue on the SSE at Bathurst and Sheppard. Is it to much to hope we've learned something from the planning of the SSE?

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I can't see them tunneling under the Don Valley West (Earl Bales Park), it would be just to cost prohibitive and could repeat the Lawrence East issue on the SSE at Bathurst and Sheppard. Is it to much to hope we've learned something from the planning of the SSE?

Tunneling along Sheppard Ave West under the West Don Valley will make one heck of a roller coaster ride! It'll be the TTC's new Vomit Comet!

Anyone familiar with Yonge Subway Line 1 knows from north of Lawrence Station (around Yonge Blvd at valley south ridge), the subway tunnel dips down towards York Mills Station, then the subway tunnel raises up until just north of Highway 401 (valley north ridge); here the ridge-to-ridge distance (Yonge Blvd to 401) is about 2km.

Along Sheppard Ave West, the ridge-to-ridge distance for the West Don Valley is about 0.65km (1/3 of that for Yonge) making any tunnel here super steep! Assuming the tunnel start dipping just west of the current tail-track at Welbeck Rd (just east of Senlac), the distance to a potential Bathurst Subway Station on Sheppard would be 1.5km,... that'll be a very deep underground station,... most likely much deeper than Bayview Station, TTC's deepest station,.. currently.

 

[JSF-1]

So tunneling under the ravine shouldn't even be an option, and yet I fear it will be. We made that mistake with the SSE and even further back we made it with the Yonge Extension since York Mills was originally planned to be elevated.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The only option for Sheppard West extension at West Don Valley is a crazy steep tunnel or rebuilding the bridge (about 50 years old and re-decked about 5 years ago) since the current bridge was never engineered to support a subway line.

Digging tunnels was very dangerous,... there's a special memorial quilt that hangs at York Mills Subway Station marking the Hogg’s Hollow Disaster.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rks_50_years_since_hoggs_hollow_disaster.html
https://torontoist.com/2010/03/historicst_disaster_at_hoggs_hollow/

Oh, you mean this elevated subway,... looking southward along Yonge south of Highway 401 - elevated subway line would have ran right through Don Valley Golf Course. Original proposed YorkMills/Wilson? Station would have been 200m west of Yonge. Current underground Subway tunnel runs just east of Yonge Street roadway.

https://transit.toronto.on.ca/photos/images/ttc-york-mills-subway-model-1969.jpg
https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5105.shtml
​

 

[JSF-1]

Yup thats what I am alluding to. Re-building the bridge would no doubt be far cheaper than tunneling, all we need to do is look at the absurd cost of the SSE to see how deep bore tunneling at that level straps a rocket to costs. As well rebuilding the bridge would ensure a station at Bathurst is built, going deep bore would almost assuredly rule out a station there like it did on the SSE at Lawrence; cutting off a major transit corridor from access.