TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[Dan416]

If Sheppard is too expensive to do anything on and isn't a priority, why on Earth did Miller make it a priority? A freakin' LRT on Sheppard is the worst option imaginable. Luckily it seems dead in the water.

 

[Hipster Duck]

IMO the "BIG DEAL" about Sheppard is that people believe that with a Subway magically there will be no more congestion on the 16 lane 401. These people I would suggest believe that if it cost X billion of dolars it would be well worth it since it will reduce traffic on their daily commute. However how many of these people would actually take transit. IMO opinion its more likely these car drivers are going to continue to drive and wonder to themselves why the cars beside them and in front of them arent taking the Subway.. Obviously the answer is simple. Its not even that the subway doesnt go from front door to work door. Its that people are addicted to their cars and its relatively cheap to drive in our country.

Make tranist FREE and make Driving as expensive as Europe 2.50 LETRE and incorporate a Vehicle Tax like Holland or Asia where you pay up to 50% of tax based on the vehicles price (ex. A car cost 100,000 then there would be an added 50,000 of tax making the total cost 150000 ) and transporation patterns will change... Of course our dreams of MCmansions with white picket fences will have to change to but thats a whole other story.

I know what you mean.

We have to stop deluding ourselves that transit reduces congestion. As long as the roads are free to use, there will always be congestion. What rapid transit does is increase capacity without adding additional lane space. The capacity, in turn, permits new growth.

At least subway, LRT, and regional rail (if we ever get it), generally leads to the kind of growth we want (urban) in the kind of place we want it (within the City of Toronto). A commuter rail service like GO transit basically facilitates sprawl in the hinterlands. It's as if the Lakeshore line was an invisible freeway leading from Oshawa and Hamilton to the heart of the downtown core.

 

[nfitz]

That's a bit of an overstatement. Bathurst / Sheppard station = major connecting route + a highrise + plaza + access to Earl Bales park, would certainly beat Bessarion, Bayview, and Leslie stations, trailing only Don Mills and Yonge.

Even Faywood station would probably beat Bessarion.

I said SOME of the stations ... not all. And I said AFTER development was completed.

 

[EnviroTO]

If Sheppard is too expensive to do anything on and isn't a priority, why on Earth did Miller make it a priority? A freakin' LRT on Sheppard is the worst option imaginable. Luckily it seems dead in the water.

If Sheppard is too expensive for an LRT why did the TTC ever make it a priority to run a bus on it? A freakin' bus on Sheppard is the worst option imaginable. Luckily all the tax cuts will lead to a situation where buses will be cut back.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Parking lots adjacent to subway stations are not going to have truly significant impacts on ridership.

Again, back to the numbers from before, a 3,500 car parking lot/garage would be lucky to provide 5,000 subway riders. That's barely 10% of existing Sheppard ridership or about 20% of the peak capacity for a single hour on the YUS.

By far the biggest source of subway riders comes from feeder buses, not walk-ins or drive-ups.

I thought the intent of the subway stations was to drive nodal development around the stations, not acres of parking.

That was one mistake made with the Kipling subway station as first built. Originally, the only entrance was at the far west end of the station, to serve the parking lots. Anyone walking from Kipling Avenue, had to walk the entire length of the station from the east and then walk back from the west entrance (if they didn't catch a bus passing a bus stop near Kipling). They are only now building an entrance near Kipling Avenue itself.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

If Sheppard is too expensive to do anything on and isn't a priority, why on Earth did Miller make it a priority? A freakin' LRT on Sheppard is the worst option imaginable. Luckily it seems dead in the water.

I don't really think you can say he made it a priority. The other three lines all got funding before Sheppard East. The only reason construction on Sheppard started before Finch and Eglinton was that they had to do the grade separation at Agincourt before they could build the rest of the line.

But what exactly is your argument here? Are you saying that if a subway is too expensive to build then EVERYTHING should be considered to expensive to build?

 

[gweed123]

If Sheppard is too expensive for an LRT why did the TTC ever make it a priority to run a bus on it? A freakin' bus on Sheppard is the worst option imaginable. Luckily all the tax cuts will lead to a situation where buses will be cut back.

I certainly hope this is a joke!

 

[Dan416]

I don't really think you can say he made it a priority. The other three lines all got funding before Sheppard East. The only reason construction on Sheppard started before Finch and Eglinton was that they had to do the grade separation at Agincourt before they could build the rest of the line.

But what exactly is your argument here? Are you saying that if a subway is too expensive to build then EVERYTHING should be considered to expensive to build?

My point is the SELRT was the worst part of Transit City. It was unforgiveable and I'm glad it's dead.

 

[nfitz]

My point is the SELRT was the worst part of Transit City. It was unforgiveable and I'm glad it's dead.

So you think that having neither subway nor LRT is a better solution than the status quo?

 

[Dan416]

So you think that having neither subway nor LRT is a better solution than the status quo?

I never said that. I'm not against the completion of the Sheppard subway, though I don't consider it a priority. Nor do I think an extension to Vaughan was a priority. I'd place replacing the SRT with subway, the DRL, and Eglinton higher. Although I suppose one could argue we should finish Sheppard first before starting Eglinton. So maybe DRL, SRT replacement with subway, Sheppard next, and then Eglinton.

 

[LAz]

We might get none of that.

So, this is at least something, and so I am thrilled that something's going on.



Or least it seems that it's going on? They're awfully slow.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

The province has agreed to fund the Eglinton crosstown haven't they? So that's the most likely thing that the city is getting.

 

[nfitz]

The province has agreed to fund the Eglinton crosstown haven't they? So that's the most likely thing that the city is getting.

Yes ... on the basis that 2/3 of the route is at-surface LRT (though they didn't fund the at-surface LRT west of Jane). The province could in theory refuse to provide any funding if the city reneges on making the portion east of Don Mills Road at-surface LRT. Though I think that's unlikely.

 

[noctis]

How about building a BRT on Sheppard? Moreover, if the TTC have enough cash (which obviously they don't), they could get the buses that VIVA has. Connect two TTC buses together (kinda like a streetcar) and use BRT...I duno, just a thought...

And seriously, will building the Sheppard Subway really get cars off the 401? I don't think so...

 

[Dan416]

Has anyone ever suggested Sheppard is taking cars off the 401? Does ANY subway take cars of the road? No highway driver is taking a subway as an alternative.

GO, on the other hand, does relieve highways.