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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

Also the stop spacing on the Ellesmere segment would be way wider than 800m. Here's literally all the proposed stops:

Scarborough Centre
McCowan Road
Markham Road
Neilson Road
UTSC
Meadowvale Road
Sheppard Avenue

and then the next stop after that would be Altona Road in Pickering.
 
Also the stop spacing on the Ellesmere segment would be way wider than 800m. Here's literally all the proposed stops:

Scarborough Centre
McCowan Road
Markham Road
Neilson Road
UTSC
Meadowvale Road
Sheppard Avenue

and then the next stop after that would be Altona Road in Pickering.
??? The proposed Sheppard subway extension that council approved studying is between Downsview and Yonge. There's no proposed subway expansion in Scarborough. If this is some Scarborough BRT discussion, it's confusingly off-topic.
 
??? The proposed Sheppard subway extension that council approved studying is between Downsview and Yonge. There's no proposed subway expansion in Scarborough. If this is some Scarborough BRT discussion, it's confusingly off-topic.

Sorry. I was responding to Electrify's description of the Durham BRT a few posts up.
 
??? The proposed Sheppard subway extension that council approved studying is between Downsview and Yonge. There's no proposed subway expansion in Scarborough. If this is some Scarborough BRT discussion, it's confusingly off-topic.

I was looking at how a Sheppard East expansion to Scarborough Centre could benefit intermediate speed transit from a regional standpoint.
 
I was looking at how a Sheppard East expansion to Scarborough Centre could benefit intermediate speed transit from a regional standpoint.
Perhaps we should have separate threads for fantasy projects, compared to active projects that are actively being studied/constructed, such as the Yonge extension, DRL, Sheppard East LRT, Sheppard West Subway Expansion ...
 
My understanding from that table is that 27km/h would be reached with a mix of right of way and bus lane/mixed traffic operation.

There are three options in that report, and their average speeds are outlined in Tables 2, 4, and 5. Full right of way along the entire route yeilds 27 km/h. A mix between bus lanes and right of way yeilds either 23.5 or 23 km/h, depending on the details of the option. And the stop spacing in all three options is significantly wider than 800m-1000m. So the idea that a Subway to STC connected to a BRT along Ellesmere would serve Eastern Scarborough as well as an LRT along Sheppard seems somewhat dubious.
 
Been away awhile, havent been able to answer these. Alvin, with logic like this, I think you should stick to attacking the guy's background ....


Let's address the points now, shall we?



First - riders, depending on their access patterns, could very well have to cross busy streets to access transit even if it is a subway line; properly implemented LRT lines will have signal priority that would minimize stopping at intersections - which they would have to do anyways for on/off loading purposes depending on the location of the stop; and under the current plan no traffic lanes are sacrificed for the proposed lines.

If an intersection with a subway stop has one subway entrance, this reduces the pedestrian street crossings by a quarter, with two entrances, by half etc etc. Surely you can understand that having underground subways DOES reduce the amount of required street crossing to get to the transit?



How many times have the Spadina "LRT" been torn up and replaced since 95?

He said Queen, King and College have been torn up multiple times. Why do you pick just one streetcar line when there are so many others to consider? BTW Spadina streetcar line is the newest one so it has had to be torn up less, just wait til it gets older (closer to the age of Queen, King etc) and then see the chaos and how many times it'll be torn up.



The Central Corridor under construction in Minneapolis is 18km; Denver has 63km of light rail lines; Calgary C-Train has 48km. All have climates that are harsh, if not harsher than ours.

And if you add those three metros together, their populations might come close to the GTAs. Those places had no choice, they HAD to go for LRT in spite of the fact that their climate makes it non ideal .. they had no choice cuz they are too small for subways.

And where are the dense areas in London and Paris, what densities are we talking about relative to where are the subways located, and what's the linkage between said lines with the suburban hinterland, and their prioritization of the construction of said lines?

Umm, who cares?? They built a large and adequate subway network first, then deployed some LRT. And the amt of LRT deployed is far less than the size of their subway network. Bottom line is: build a large subway network first then consider possible small LRT additions (maybe! Madrid has all subway and no LRT, so LRT is often not even necessary, I happen to disagree with even the small Paris LRT and prefer Madrid's all-subway solution).

And yet there is no discussion on converting an underused stub subway into LRT in order to eliminate that transfer.

Of course there isn't. We spent billions on a hi capacity subway, now we should go backwards and convert it into an LRT? And waste all that spent money? You do know that building a big tunnel and full featured stations for subway trains is much more expensive than a smaller tunnel for an LRT, right? What craziness! Better to extend the subway to busier areas and boost the subway ridership.

Note the equating of "transit" with "subways" - is subway the only valid way to serve that need? And is the said individual comparing the ridership of Yonge line to downtown to even the most optimistic projections for Sheppard?



How does Finch LRT not satisfy Etobicoke riders, who had to contend with a) buses and b) nothing else for the forseeable future?

It doesn't satisfy because as mentioned, the LRT will means spending billions to deliver a marginal (if any) improvement. Like using a hammer to kill an ant. Better to wait for a real solution down the road. Leftists enjoy spending money for solutions that dont work, cuz after all it is just public money and it WILL employ unions .. which is all the radical left cares about.

Numbers please.



As if Bloor and Yonge lines aren't streetcars (not even LRT) lines to begin with. Where the need arises, transportation infrastructure will be upgraded.

SO because we had the finanical wherewithal and political will in those days to tear up the Yonge streetcar and build a subway, you think we will be able to do it again??? You know full well (or I hope you do) that once we build an LRT and spend billions on that, that LRT will not be torn up and replaced with subway... NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Once they get LRT, they are stuck with that forever, whether it serves their needs or not.


AoD
 
I think the discussion about revenue tools that the city will be having soon is going to lead to something. Plus Andy Byford has said point blank that it's time we have a serious talk about the DRL. Plus we have a pro-subway mayor. If Ford does anything right in his term, it could very well be this.

Hahaha! Ford hates people who live downtown (he has said it multiple times on his radio show). The last thing he wants is to build another downtown subway. If the DRL was officially proposed during Ford's term he would just say that it's another example of the "downtown elites" stealing proper transit from the suburbs.
 
Hahaha! Ford hates people who live downtown (he has said it multiple times on his radio show). The last thing he wants is to build another downtown subway. If the DRL was officially proposed during Ford's term he would just say that it's another example of the "downtown elites" stealing proper transit from the suburbs.

The people of dntn Toronto should NOT get any subway... cuz most of them voted AGAINST the pro subway mayor.. remember??? So why should they get subway?


If they wanted subway they shouldve voted for the subway mayor... since they didnt, tough luck.
 
BTW the argument that Sheppard subway should be opposed because density is not hi enough is ridiculous. The Miller administration cheerfully agreed to a subway to Vaughan, and I'm quite sure the density up there is less than Scarboro.

No, this was politics mixed in with racism.. after all Vaughan has a lesser percentage of non whites than Scarborough.
 
I have talked to both Councillor Robinson and Berardinetti staff after the Sheppard avenue vote and this issue will not be settle until the 2014 election.

Ford will likely promise it again and it's hard to believe that other candidate wouldn't as well. The likes of Stinz and Vaughan won't stand a chance without the suburbs vote and they will remember being denied rapid transit.

Both councillors staff told me that a mix of LRT and subway would be viable and they would work to make a case for it.

-The revenue tools that the city will come up with for transit will most likely be use in the next election to finance Sheppard. (Something Ford should have done a year ago)

-The DRL is being study as an option by Metrolinx to relieve Union Station. That's their #1 priority.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...and Related Planning Studies - FINAL (DS).pdf

In other words, if they choose the subway (Pape to Exhibition) over the GO tunnel they will pay it since they need it. That explains why politicians kept quiet about it up until now. Those revenue tools from City Hall could finance a DRL extension going north to Eglinton in the east and Dundas West to the west.

-By 2014, it would be very unlikely that the LRT would reach Kennedy road. Sheppard could have LRT from Morningside to Agincourt and have the rest of the way being subway with the connection to STC.

-The LRT going deeper into Scarborough would feed the Sheppard line with extra riders which will push the line in the TTC standards for subway. "Metrolinx projection were showing Sheppard meeting the target by 2031"

-I pointed them in the right direction by briefing them on the Montreal Blue subway line which is virtually the same as Sheppard in term of location and context.

It used to have such a low ridership when it was build that the line was shutdown at 11h15pm. Why TTC runs the Sheppard line until 2AM is beyond me but that clearly contributed to make the line lose more money than it should have.

Ridership grew over the years and now the line close later, the trains are more frequent and longer. Montreal will extend it east and they are calling it a success.

The STM manager said LRT was studied as a cheaper alternative to extend it east and was rejected because in his own words
"It didn't make sense to lose the potential ridership by forcing an extra transfer using another technology"

They said they would study the Blue line in Montreal and prove that Sheppard can be just as successful.
 
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