News   Apr 19, 2024
 532     0 
News   Apr 19, 2024
 608     2 
News   Apr 19, 2024
 1K     3 

TTC: Pape Station Renovation

"Nine ugliest" ?

I'd put Dundas, Wilson, Warden well above Kipling or Pape.

You can't really compare those to Pape, though. Wilson and Warden would cost a fortune because of their massive bus bays, and Dundas doesn't have any significant street presence. And anyway, the above-ground portion of Pape is absolutely ghastly, especially the bus "waiting room", which looks like it was built in the 60s and never touched up once since then... nor even cleaned. I go to Pape station every day, and trust me, Wilson, Vic Park, Warden et al have nothing on its ugliness.

I'm more confused by the timing of this. Is it just me, or would the station require another, larger retrofit when they build the Don Mills-Pape LRT line? I don't see anywhere for streetcars to go in the renovated station.
 
I'm more confused by the timing of this. Is it just me, or would the station require another, larger retrofit when they build the Don Mills-Pape LRT line? I don't see anywhere for streetcars to go in the renovated station.

I was thinking the same thing. With the Don Mills LRT terminus not completely figured out yet I would think work on Pape, Broadview, or Castle Frank should be put off. This may be a sign that Pape has already been ruled out behind the scenes.
 
The Pape section of the Don Mills line is likely to be below grade, the platform connecting with the mezzanine level. There would not necessarily be much impact at street level, and no reason to undo the work done now.
 
Look carefully at those Pape renderings. They were done in Google Sketchup! Unfortunately whoever rendered the station didn't do a good job cleaning up the renders... i still see construction lines in the exterior view, and the thick "profile" lines are very unsightly. (maybe they should have hired me to do the rendering :))

From the renderings, it seems like the whole renovation of the station entrance will be nothing but a cosmetic update of the glass shed that the entrance already is right now. I think it would be pretty nice if the TTC rebuilt its B-D station entrances along the lines of its original vision for them... a moderne-looking shack like this...

artistsrendition_800.jpg
 
I was joking but it looks like Bilbao got Norman Foster designed subway entrances to go with Gehry's city transformation:

bilbao-abando-400.jpg


Now, why does a city with a moderate climate get an enclosed entrance, and a beautiful one at that, when Toronto with its harsh winters has to deal with open air (fugly) entrances?

11.jpg
 
I'm more confused by the timing of this. Is it just me, or would the station require another, larger retrofit when they build the Don Mills-Pape LRT line? I don't see anywhere for streetcars to go in the renovated station.

Ironically, the site of what is now the Pape Station used to contain a streetcar loop for the old Harbord line (details here). The cars would loop around Lipton and Gertrude Streets, and there is a really narrow crappy house today on Gertrude that sits at the location where the streetcars used to travel onto that little street.
 
The Pape section of the Don Mills line is likely to be below grade, the platform connecting with the mezzanine level. There would not necessarily be much impact at street level, and no reason to undo the work done now.

It was stated at TTC meeting that the section between the DVP and the BD regardless what connecting station for the Don Mills line will be underground.

Since the roads are narrow in the first place to support an ROW, it has to go underground.

We will know in a few months which station will be use once the engineering investigation is done on the Leaside bridge.

I have said that the DM lines has to run underground to either Pape or Coxwell station from day one because of the road system. It also has to continue south to connect with either the Queen Line or the Lake Shore line to act as a relief line that ppl being calling for some years.

Coxwell is the better choices as the DM would be a straight line over the DVP and go under ground.

If doing Pape, the DM will have to run on an angle if the bridge will not support the LRT load. Even if it ran over the bridge, some homes will have to go to get the line underground.

No homes will have to go if the line use Coxwell as the LRT bridge will slope as it cross the DVP to get the line underground.
 
Now, why does a city with a moderate climate get an enclosed entrance, and a beautiful one at that, when Toronto with its harsh winters has to deal with open air (fugly) entrances?

11.jpg

Wouldn't that Museum entrance be more of a 70s/80s "brutalist" reno thing?
 
There is a meeting to discuss the revitalization of Pape Station, which will start in August '08, this Wednesday, March 5th in the basement of Holy Name Catholic Church.

Thanks. I asked the question above about the status of the project (seeing as how the next public meeting was supposed to be Sept. 07), went home two hours later and the notice of the March 5 meeting was waiting for me in my mailbox.
 
It was stated at TTC meeting that the section between the DVP and the BD regardless what connecting station for the Don Mills line will be underground.
Since the roads are narrow in the first place to support an ROW, it has to go underground.
We will know in a few months which station will be use once the engineering investigation is done on the Leaside bridge.
I have said that the DM lines has to run underground to either Pape or Coxwell station from day one because of the road system. It also has to continue south to connect with either the Queen Line or the Lake Shore line to act as a relief line that ppl being calling for some years.
Coxwell is the better choices as the DM would be a straight line over the DVP and go under ground.
If doing Pape, the DM will have to run on an angle if the bridge will not support the LRT load. Even if it ran over the bridge, some homes will have to go to get the line underground.
No homes will have to go if the line use Coxwell as the LRT bridge will slope as it cross the DVP to get the line underground.

I like the notion of Coxwell over Pape myself. I don't know why we'd let condos dictate where to place our subway lines (oh wait, that's the criteria everyone's looking for nowadays, right?) as I'm sure someone will argue for in the case of Pape/Cosburn.

Using Coxwell however in the very same geographic grid alignment as Don Mills Road, not only spares us the Overlea-Millwood jog, but becomes practical for other uses as well. For one Pape is so close to Yonge St, it's effectively redundant whereas Coxwell is geographically in the middle of Kennedy and Yonge, hence farthest from major lines and closest to high demands.

Whereas Pape/Danforth is a major retail/commercial zone already, Coxwell/Danforth is ripe for massive redevelopemnt and building the 'subway' there would allot that. East York Civic Centre and East Toronto General Hospital sit on a dying spit of land aound Coxwell/Mortimer where tons of vacant lands sit anxious. Again there's where subways come in. Coxwell/Oconnor, where route 8 terminates also sounds like a good place for a stop of more help to route 70 than a Pape alignment would allot.

South of Bloor, Gerrard India Bazaar is an instant draw for a stop with exits facing the two Gerrards. However the 'subway' really meets it's full potential once hitting Queen St. Instead of following the rail corridor, this line could/should head across Queen into the downtown, where an intricate loop serves most of the inner city while also getting suburbanites into the city. Win...win:cool:! Of course that idea's too clever for most people to admit so we'll be stuck with a lackluster peripheral line instead.
 
I disagree with trying to avoid using Overlea and Millwood. Thorncliffe Park is a huge trip generator and it makes no sense to divert the rapid transit around a community of 30,000+.
 

Back
Top