urbanclient
Active Member
Rapid transit systems in the US having abysmal ridership except for NYC seems like a US-specific issue. I won't expand on possible reasons because it belongs in a different thread.
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
turbanplanner
Senior Member
People need to feel comfortable and safe, then reliability comes into play.
I will regularly see on social media people screaming you don't have the right to feel safe, and in the same thought they'll wonder why ridership is down!
Mihairokov
Senior Member
Anything to back this up with? It feels like the same sort of talking point for why people don't want to use public transit in the first place (it's for poor people, it's for (insert racial demographic) etc.).
People don't use public transit in the US, i'm assuming, because their cities are not conducive to it or getting around with it, NYC and few others being the exception. How far is the LA Metro or BART going to get people where they need to go? Probably not very far.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
Nearly half of Toronto transit riders feel unsafe riding TTC: Ipsos poll. Regardless if they're "wrong" you have to do something to tackle that perspective.
Nearly half of Toronto transit riders feel unsafe riding TTC: Ipsos poll | Watch News Videos Online
Watch Nearly half of Toronto transit riders feel unsafe riding TTC: Ipsos poll Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca
globalnews.ca
I agree most cities are not setup in a way that public transit is even useable. To me the safety issue explains why PREVIOUS riders, chose to start driving instead.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Agreed.
The sad thing is the best tool for maintaining perceived and actual safety on the TTC is right there in front of them, fare enforcement. You don't have to approach or remove EDPs if most cannot get onto the system to start with. Stop them at the gate or door.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
I haven’t regularly taken the TTC at rush-hour in years, but I noticed the inspectors were all waiting at the bottom of the steps at Bathurst, there was also enforcement at Spadina (though you could literally walk right past them because the stanchions were open)
Mihairokov
Senior Member
Anything more recent than this? I'm not moving goalposts but 2023 was coming out of COVID and much has changed b/w then and now. Is TTC ridership up/down compared to violent crime on TTC in that timeframe?
Either way, the video from Global doesn't really support your assertion that ridership is down because transit is unsafe. The woman they interviewed who was assaulted continued using TTC after her assault.
Anyway, tired of this thread becoming a soapbox for dog whistling over the unhoused and those with other issues who need government support. I come here to read about TTC, not fearmongering over scary people riding the subway.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
You're safer taking taking public transit than driving
From https://www.wearetdm.com/single-post/these-charts-explain-why-public-transit-is-safer-than-driving-scientific-american
Click Here to Read the Full Article
81-717
Active Member
Why would anyone say this? It is a right, not a privilege.
T3G
Senior Member
Feeling "safe" is far too vague of a term to define as a right.
One person's safety doesn't have to be another's.
One person's safety doesn't have to be another's.
81-717
Active Member
Is "being safe" more concrete of a term? i.e. one has the right to be safe, whether or not they "feel" safe is a different question?
Setting aside that if someone is a direct threat to the safety of others, they might forfeit their own right to safety, which is another discussion.
T3G
Senior Member
Not really. I would say you'd need to specify some type of safety, one that is unlikely to be objectionable to society at large, i.e. the right of safety from bodily harm, or the threat of it. Anything less specific than that will inevitably end up alienating some social group or other. Some people may feel unsafe seeing homeless people around, but if they're not being violent or threatening the same, fulfilling one person's right to "feel safe" will directly clash with their (the homeless') own rights to use the transit system. Or, for a more extreme example, if you're a nutcase religious person, you may feel unsafe by seeing someone wearing a pentagram shirt, eyeliner, immodest amounts of skin or hair.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
That study is about the US, I think road rage with guns is almost non existent in Canada. I'll see maybe 3 articles a year in the news and they're almost always at like 2am on a 400 highway.
I wasn't able to find a newer Ipsos poll. Though the TTC saying it's your fault you got pushed for travelling alone at night was a pretty shit take by them IMO.
I don't have a more recent poll but BART (In San Francisco) installed faregates in some stations and station maintenance costs shot down over 90% I have some theories why....
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Actuaries be damned; it's the perception of danger that matters. If I'm standing next to a crazed addict on the subway platform, who's incoherently shouting and flaying about and walking up behind me, BUT does not try to push me onto the tracks, the actuaries will say that was a safe trip. Well screw them. Fix the perception of danger and the real danger will also be addressed, and the regular, sane, sober and stable passengers will return.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
This is the same system that considers 3 bunched busses or streetcars as "on time" since they left the terminal within 3 mins of schedule.