TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[evandyk]

Just found the Star article, which I hadn't seen before.

TTC union tells Toronto to prepare for a strike Friday as little progress made in contract talks

The union representing about 12,000 frontline TTC workers said Monday that there has not been enough progress at the contract bargaining table to end plans for a strike as early as Friday.

www.thestar.com

Sources told the Star late last week that the union rebuffed a four-year TTC offer that would have given workers annual raises of 3.75 per cent, 3.5 per cent, 3.5 per cent and three per cent. The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to disclose the figures, said the union was seeking a three-year deal with hikes of seven, six and five per cent.

Neither the TTC nor the union would confirm those numbers. The union’s previous contract saw salaries rise about two per cent each year for three years.

 

[Richard White]

I think it's unlikely a strike can be avoided, though it's very possible a strike happens and is resolved by the end of the weekend, which would probably be manageable. If a strike goes into next week it would be a disaster for everyone.

I don't see this going into next week.

With the PC Majority I can see Ford recalling the legislature to pass Back to Work legislation.

He may let it go one day or two to show he respects their right to strike but he isn't a fool. He likely knows that paralyzing the city isn't any way to win votes.

If ATU 113 gets pushy or decides they hold all the cards I can see Doug Ford putting the screws to them.

 

[nfitz]

How would back to work legislation be impacted by the court ruling that the removing the right to strike is unconstitutional.

I suppose the province could use the notwithstanding clause to suspend fundamental freedom. But the last time the Ford government tried that with CUPE, they backed down under the threat of the first general strike in the province since ... gosh, we must be looking at pre-WW2.

 

[generalcanada]

How would back to work legislation be impacted by the court ruling that the removing the right to strike is unconstitutional.

I suppose the province could use the notwithstanding clause to suspend fundamental freedom. But the last time the Ford government tried that with CUPE, they backed down under the threat of the first general strike in the province since ... gosh, we must be looking at pre-WW2.

The big point about the cupe strike was the forced contract. That is just straight up ignoring the SCC ruling. Back to work legislation has been used many times. But when used its almost always forced binding arbitration.

I can't be sure but I don't think back-to-work legislation and arbitration were ever declared unconstitutional, only outright bans, like the SCC and the recent TTC ruling were.

I would expect a similar appeal to the courts for any back-to-work legislation.
Personally, it shouldn't ever be used.
Whats the point of striking if management knows youre going to arbitration anyway

 

[evandyk]

How would back to work legislation be impacted by the court ruling that the removing the right to strike is unconstitutional.

I suppose the province could use the notwithstanding clause to suspend fundamental freedom. But the last time the Ford government tried that with CUPE, they backed down under the threat of the first general strike in the province since ... gosh, we must be looking at pre-WW2.

The Ontario Court of Appeal went out of its way to say that it wasn't ruling out back-to-work legislation:

[140] To be clear, the constitutionality of hypothetical future back-to-work legislation after SFL is not before us in this appeal. Legislation that requires workers to return to work, and to submit outstanding bargaining issues to binding arbitration, raises different concerns than are presented by legislation that eliminates the right to strike from the outset. When (or if) a constitutional challenge to back-to-work legislation arises, it will have to be decided on its own particular facts and its own particular circumstances. Nothing I say here should be understood as expressing any opinion about these issues, none of which are before us.

https://canlii.ca/t/k4sms

The one judge who dissented noted that it makes no sense to prohibit the government from acting proactively to prevent a harm that it may be allowed to address reactively.

[222] Finally, I address my colleagues’ observations about the difference between the analysis to be undertaken here and the analysis that might be undertaken once a strike has occurred. My colleagues say that, once a strike has started, Ontario “may be able to present better evidence about the actual impacts on health and safety, the environment, and the economy.” With respect, neither the Legislature nor the public should have to wait for harm to occur before acting. There is no constitutional principle of which I am aware that requires a government to only react to a situation of harm rather than to be proactive in avoiding the harm.

 

[evandyk]

Whats the point of striking if management knows youre going to arbitration anyway

Bob Kinnear says there's a point.

Even if labour and management both assume that the legislature will eventually intervene to end any strike or lockout, their shared uncertainty about whether and when this might happen can maintain some of this pressure. Former ATU Local 113 President Bob Kinnear made this point in his affidavit evidence, stating that:

argaining with a right to strike, even where back to work legislation may be imposed, puts the union and its members in a much more powerful position than bargaining when the union has been stripped of the right to strike.

 

[generalcanada]

Bob Kinnear says there's a point.

"Something is better than nothing"

 

[Northern Light]

 

[evandyk]

I wonder if we can get David Rider over here to keep us updated on what his sources are telling him about the bargaining.

I also wonder if we'll have some surprises like last time when they had a tentative deal but the workers voted it down.

If there is a strike, I expect there'll be legislation to have them back at work either before Monday, or passed on Monday to have it running on Tuesday.

 

[cplchanb]

Other than bloor, which other station has these markings? Once again ttc dragging their heels when it comes to atc related implementation

 

[PL1]

View attachment 570140

I biked by yesterday and it appeared complete. Apparently it was!

 

[T3G]

Other than bloor, which other station has these markings? Once again ttc dragging their heels when it comes to atc related implementation

Other than other busy stations like Eglinton or Union, what's the point of these markings? At a quieter or mid use stations it is hardly a problem to shuffle a few feet over to the nearest door. Seems like a waste of material and manpower.

 

[Jonny5]

So it feels like this strike is actually going to happen.
It was a rather incendiary press conference from the ATU this morning. I know last second deals can happen, but the rhetoric is quite intense for that scenario to be in play.

One interesting note will be how many people have no clue about it. I've talked to several people at my office today who rely on the TTC that were not aware of this possibility at all until I told them.

 

[max]

Other than other busy stations like Eglinton or Union, what's the point of these markings? At a quieter or mid use stations it is hardly a problem to shuffle a few feet over to the nearest door. Seems like a waste of material and manpower.

If your criteria is just busy stations then there's plenty that could use them that haven't had them installed. Having them in more places also means riders will be more familiar with them, I know they look really obvious in their purpose but some people won't clue in right away. Finally, and I'll admit this is a bit of a reach, but if you can make all stations more efficient it could reduce dwell times in the aggregate and speed up the whole line.

One critique I have of those markings is the use of the ISA, I think what they're going for is that you should stand on the sides to keep the way clear for those needing additional space for accessibility, but I had to look at it and think for about 15 seconds before I got there. My initial reading was that those with accessibility needs should stay to the sides but I immediately recognized that makes little sense. I think you can overuse a symbol in public and dilute its meaning, reducing its value for communication.

 

[DSCToronto]

If your criteria is just busy stations then there's plenty that could use them that haven't had them installed. Having them in more places also means riders will be more familiar with them, I know they look really obvious in their purpose but some people won't clue in right away. Finally, and I'll admit this is a bit of a reach, but if you can make all stations more efficient it could reduce dwell times in the aggregate and speed up the whole line.

One critique I have of those markings is the use of the ISA, I think what they're going for is that you should stand on the sides to keep the way clear for those needing additional space for accessibility, but I had to look at it and think for about 15 seconds before I got there. My initial reading was that those with accessibility needs should stay to the sides but I immediately recognized that makes little sense. I think you can overuse a symbol in public and dilute its meaning, reducing its value for communication.

I do not disagree but maybe the TTC are being sensible (well, it's possible) and trying this at one or two stations before rolling out all over. Too often the City rushes into things headlong (because they are late) and then realises that their plan is in need of modification.