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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
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tiffer24
Senior Member
Sixty of 300 digital screens that are meant to display when the next Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) bus is coming are not working, with some not functioning for weeks, according to the TTC.
Shoshanna Saxe, an associate professor in civil engineering at the University of Toronto, said while the broken screens may seem like a small problem, it's indicative of wider transit issues across the system stemming from years of budget cuts that's led to the erosion of infrastructure.
"I've noticed some of the signs aren't working, or they're saying a bus is coming, but the time isn't right," Saxe said.
"But it's a symptom of a bigger problem that we're seeing more and more of in the city. For the last 10 years and longer, we've under invested in taking care of our infrastructure," she said. "So, little things are looking a little less good or working a little less well. And that's adding up."
A January 2023 presentation from the TTC to the city's Budget Committee highlights that the state of good repair backlog for the transit service is growing at an "accelerated rate." According to the presentation, state of good repair refers to what the city describes as years of unmaintained infrastructure issues that need to be tackled. The backlog for TTC will grow from $92.5 million to $6.29 billion by 2032 if no additional funding is provided.
"Funding in TTC's infrastructure is critical," the presentation states. The safety and the reliability of the services relies on it."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-bus-signs-broken-1.6928556
Shoshanna Saxe, an associate professor in civil engineering at the University of Toronto, said while the broken screens may seem like a small problem, it's indicative of wider transit issues across the system stemming from years of budget cuts that's led to the erosion of infrastructure.
"I've noticed some of the signs aren't working, or they're saying a bus is coming, but the time isn't right," Saxe said.
"But it's a symptom of a bigger problem that we're seeing more and more of in the city. For the last 10 years and longer, we've under invested in taking care of our infrastructure," she said. "So, little things are looking a little less good or working a little less well. And that's adding up."
A January 2023 presentation from the TTC to the city's Budget Committee highlights that the state of good repair backlog for the transit service is growing at an "accelerated rate." According to the presentation, state of good repair refers to what the city describes as years of unmaintained infrastructure issues that need to be tackled. The backlog for TTC will grow from $92.5 million to $6.29 billion by 2032 if no additional funding is provided.
"Funding in TTC's infrastructure is critical," the presentation states. The safety and the reliability of the services relies on it."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-bus-signs-broken-1.6928556
DSCToronto
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The article on CBC continues to note:
"In a statement to CBC Toronto, the TTC said the broken signs are the result of weather or vandalism, and that it is in the process of getting them fixed.
But the agency said "there's no correlation whatsoever between these signs and larger funding issues."
"They were put in shelters as a pilot and no more are planned to be installed given the availability of next vehicle arrival features like apps and text to stop," it said.
On average it takes two to three days for the vendor to repair one depending on availability, the TTC said. "
I am not sure that it is reasonable to expect everyone to have apps and smart phones and having Next Bus screen in, at least, major interchange points and on routes with infrequent service seems a necessity IF one wants to provide good service. The question is "Does the TTC actually care about providing good service?" Their inability to manage surface routes would tend to answer "No"!
T3G
Senior Member
I was just at Union station last night. The next car arrival sign on the streetcar platform didn't work.
The sign is on high and there were no signs that anyone had tampered with them, and the station is enclosed so weather is also not a concern.
Very interesting...
The sign is on high and there were no signs that anyone had tampered with them, and the station is enclosed so weather is also not a concern.
Very interesting...
DSCToronto
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Northern Light
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The displays selected for the pilot are now quite out-moded, and should be replaced with better LED displays.
That said, there are over 4,000 surface stops on the TTC and each and every one of them should come with a next-vehicle display. That's the gold standard around the world, and that's where our aim ought to be.
Arguing that with apps there is no need for such displays is akin to arguing for no shelters because umbrellas exist.
***
In both cases:
a) People may not have the useful device with them that the circumstances call for.
b) They may have the device, but it may be broken, low-battery, have a provider-issue, or be inadequate for the circumstance.
Every reasonable effort should be made to provide a Next Veh. Screen at every stop, along with, outdoor seating, a waste receptacle, and a shelter, wherever space permits.
Where possible, over time, seasonal drinking fountains/water-bottle fillers, and heating of shelters would be nice add-ons.
That said, there are over 4,000 surface stops on the TTC and each and every one of them should come with a next-vehicle display. That's the gold standard around the world, and that's where our aim ought to be.
Arguing that with apps there is no need for such displays is akin to arguing for no shelters because umbrellas exist.
***
In both cases:
a) People may not have the useful device with them that the circumstances call for.
b) They may have the device, but it may be broken, low-battery, have a provider-issue, or be inadequate for the circumstance.
Every reasonable effort should be made to provide a Next Veh. Screen at every stop, along with, outdoor seating, a waste receptacle, and a shelter, wherever space permits.
Where possible, over time, seasonal drinking fountains/water-bottle fillers, and heating of shelters would be nice add-ons.
DSCToronto
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I heard from the Adelaide St team @ the City. The actual track-laying is not imminent but at least something is happening. They said: "The crews are moving along nicely with the utility work (knocks on wood). You will begin to see a few more utility chambers being worked on over the next week. Once we have a better idea of how the utility work is progressing, we will be updating the website with more info on when the TTC track work can begin.
The TTC rail welding is just the prep work needed to prepare for the eventual TTC track work."
Amare
Senior Member
Absolute BS coming from the TTC. There's no correlation between hundreds of next vehicle displays not working and funding huh?
It's funny because we're in the summer now, so their weather excuse is automatically tossed out the window. As for their vandalism claim, do they expect us to believe there's some vandal going around an destroying dozens and dozens of next vehicle display signs? Even if we decided to take them for their word, if that were true let them go coordinate with the city when Astral's contract expires for street furniture to find a company who will design bus shelters that will take this kind of thing into consideration. And in the meantime, go and fix the signs it's really not rocket science.
Now let's get to their statement of them not looking to install anymore displays because people can download apps. I dont know what they're inhaling in that Davisville office (maybe we really do need to relocate their employees ASAP because it's affecting their ability to implement competent and useful solutions), but this is just idiotic thinking. First they got rid of bus stop schedules because of this reasoning, and now all of a sudden everyone has a phone with an app to check for next vehicle times? I'm sorry this is just a purely stupid rationalization process on their part. It's called making the service more attractive and convenient for people to use, so people wont have to pull out their phones. Something that they should understand if they're trying to attract people to use the system, not continue to find ways to drive them away.
Undead
Senior Member
It's even worse than that. I believe Steve Munro identified the true state of TTC deferred maintenance/state of good repair (iceberg beneath the surface) is something like $20-30 billion over the next 10-15 years.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I hate to break it to you but more people do use apps on their phones now for transit information. It's so much easier to check your phone then to look for some stupid screen somewhere in a shelter to find out information you can from your phone.
Yes I understand that there are people who don't have smartphones that don't use transit but they are in are getting closer to bring in the minority of people then people make it out to be.
Also before anyone says that tourists won't use an app, there are many apps that can be used world wide for public transit and not just on the TTC even Google maps gives out transit directions.
Amare
Senior Member
So I guess we might as well get rid of all the bus departure screens at subway stations because people can look at their phones for when their bus is leaving, and even let's get rid of next train arrival information as well also. While we're at it we should probably get rid of train and departure boards at Union because people can look at their phones as well right?
You're missing the point, the screens make it very easy and accessible to see when a bus/streetcar is scheduled to arrive. Especially when there are multiple routes stopping at a given stop. They help make transit easier to navigate, and thus more attractive.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
I think the ones in the stations are useful but I don't think that the ones at stops are because they aren't in a place that everyone can see them and having too much information on them can get confusing to people.
T3G
Senior Member
Hard to fathom how unlocking your phone, opening your app, hoping it works, and then finding your route information from the list, all under the presumption that you have internet connection, is easier than looking up at the sign and reading the information off of it. Especially if there's more than one route at the stop. In the time that it takes to find your route in the app, get a text message of departures from that stop, or finding your route or stop on TransSee (or setting up TransSee to show you data for multiple routes), you could've looked up and found out when the next departure is about 15 times over.
No, I'm sorry. This is completely and totally the wrong attitude to take.
EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
T3G
Senior Member
Feel free to reread my post, then.
No, that's not actually what I said.
You said:
To which I said:
If you are going to argue that tilting one's neck upwards is a difficulty, it must therefore be argued that going to the trouble of opening the app you're using, and finding the route you're looking for, is several magnitudes more difficult.
In that case, they have no choice but to engage in alternatives. But that's the nature of life - when something doesn't work, alternatives must be used. Fortunately, in civilized cities with civilized transit systems, failures of this nature are rare. At any rate, the fact that something CAN go wrong is not actually an argument against having it exist in the first place. Otherwise, you could very well go ahead and argue we shouldn't even bother having a transit system, since sometimes subways and buses and trams break down, and in that case it's inconvenient to have to get off and use alternatives.