APTA-2048
Senior Member
Toronto is actively looking at ways to save as much money as possible. So we get ideas like all-plastic seats.
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Also, I will say there’s a certain point where quality of service will trump how things look and feel. Viva had very attractive and comfortable buses from Van Hool, but continues to gut frequency. At a certain point, people will not put up with a long travel time no matter how attractive the vehicles are.
T3G
Senior Member
This is the key point, I think.
Not that the bus above doesn't look good, but for all its faults, Toronto can't be accused of having unattractive buses, either. (Though the interior configuration of these Euro buses far and away trumps anything we have seen in Toronto since the 1996 Orion Vs). Ordering this BRT design wouldn't really push us forward in any appreciable capacity if the quality of the service continued to be poor. They would still get stuck in traffic and be subject to bad line management.
SashaLemon
Active Member
It would be great if the TTC looked into creating BRT routes. They have so many bus routes that are very frequent, surely they would still run the busses frequently with enhanced stops, right-of-way, and fancy European busses.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
They can definitely do all that, but the last point is a bit harder. European companies would have to be willing to produce a vehicle certified to CMVSS. They might not see it as worth it or they would definitely be charging the TTC a lot more. MAN, Volvo, Mercedes, and Scania all tried to enter the North American market in the 1970s and 1980s. However their presence was short lived after not meeting sales expectations. So I would think there is a lot of hesitation to try again.
Actually, I should add: Daimler is now selling a new Mercedes coach in North America with a design expressly for North America. So I guess there is some appetite for expansion. But this coach comes as a replacement for a Setra design that faced declining sales over time.
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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
TTC service adjustments
Effective February 12, 2023
On Sunday, February 12, 2023 (unless otherwise noted), TTC will be making several service adjustments across the network. TTC will also be accommodating for construction activities on various routes.
See link.
SashaLemon
Active Member
Is there any way to get a waiver for busses, arguing that these vehicles would only be operating in their own right-of-way. What would be the real difference between a t bone crash in an intersection between a North American bus and a European bus?
T3G
Senior Member
I don't think this would fly, especially if the vehicle was not fully grade separated. What if there's a bus shortage and a BRT unit is all that's left? No one would choose to hold it back and have a run be cancelled.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
You probably could, but at the end of the day it’s up to the TTC and the manufacturer to expend time, money, and energy on making it happen. Not to mention the City would have to make the case to the citizens for why they are going to probably spend more on something that can be purchased here.
I never took a deep dive into the different standards, but I imagine many are probably similar but not exactly the same.
drum118
Superstar
I will let the experts handle this as its not my field, but buses to run in NA must go through a testing program with Altoona being the main one. They must also be certify to run in Canada as well. No idea what York Region did to get Van Hool buses for their VIVA system in early 2000 to able to start running in 2005.
There are a number of bus companies that produce buses for other system and not used in Canada.
You have Gillig buses that are manufacture in California that supplies various size and types of buses and have yet to see one in Canada based on the trips I have taken over the years. They produce about 1200 buses yearly and they just expanded their plant. Seen them in Buffalo and Detroit as the closest system to Canada.
Only seen 30' Eldorado National up here, but again they have mixed fleet size and type with 40' in Port Huron. Seen very few systems using these buses compare to Gillig.
Some systems have moved away from New Flyers buses as well having a mix fleet of 2 or more suppliers. Seen only a few buses for X year in a fleet to well over 100 for x year with Cleveland seeing 125 buses from Gillig for that x year.
Europe has more manufactures of buses than NA with a lot of sharp looking model's from I saw last year, Saw more ebuses than hybrids as the newest model hitting the road..
The one thing I saw and like to see on any NA buses is the automatically kneeling of the bus when the front door is open to the point the passenger side kneel for so all doors are lower at the same time. Most Europe buses have an extra door for each size compare to our 2 for 40' and 3 doors for 60'.
Cost will always be the selling point with looks at the tail end.
One needs to visit Orlando to see a wide range of colours for the fleet as well using 2020/6/6 small numbers based on the day and month they took delivery of the bus.
There are a number of bus companies that produce buses for other system and not used in Canada.
You have Gillig buses that are manufacture in California that supplies various size and types of buses and have yet to see one in Canada based on the trips I have taken over the years. They produce about 1200 buses yearly and they just expanded their plant. Seen them in Buffalo and Detroit as the closest system to Canada.
Only seen 30' Eldorado National up here, but again they have mixed fleet size and type with 40' in Port Huron. Seen very few systems using these buses compare to Gillig.
Some systems have moved away from New Flyers buses as well having a mix fleet of 2 or more suppliers. Seen only a few buses for X year in a fleet to well over 100 for x year with Cleveland seeing 125 buses from Gillig for that x year.
Europe has more manufactures of buses than NA with a lot of sharp looking model's from I saw last year, Saw more ebuses than hybrids as the newest model hitting the road..
The one thing I saw and like to see on any NA buses is the automatically kneeling of the bus when the front door is open to the point the passenger side kneel for so all doors are lower at the same time. Most Europe buses have an extra door for each size compare to our 2 for 40' and 3 doors for 60'.
Cost will always be the selling point with looks at the tail end.
One needs to visit Orlando to see a wide range of colours for the fleet as well using 2020/6/6 small numbers based on the day and month they took delivery of the bus.
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gabe
Senior Member
Cops are busting fare evaders.
DSCToronto
Superstar
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Not sure that's a good use of highly paid police on overtime but .....
IRT_BMT_IND
Active Member
It probably would be possible to have noncompliant vehicles on a separated busway, but it would likely need to be more on the scale of the Ottawa transitway. And the vehicles would not be able to get license plates so wouldn't be able to operate on public roads in any capacity without being towed, so the garage would need a direct connection to the busway. The same way Pearson Airport has some Euro spec Volvo trucks, or how some mines have 70 series Toyota Landcruisers (Toyota Canada actually imports these officially, but does not sell them to the general public), because the vehicles never leave the property.
yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
Before VIVA the Van Hool AG300 and A330 was in use with AC Transit and RTL if I remember correctly, so my guess is they were already approved for the North American market. Going back in time, the VIVA system had a huge marketing aspected coupled onto the project. They needed a vehicle that stood out and could draw wealthy suburban residents towards taking transit. The Van Hools are definitely a better looking bus than their successor Novabus even with all the BRT optional modifications added. The cost of parts was what really led to Novabus being the chosen successor for VIVA.
The VIVA Van Hools seemed to be quite robust considering that they hit the road starting in 2005. The articulated AG300s have been retired after so many years. The 40' A330 are still round (18 year olds lol).
Steve X
Senior Member
I certainly have been on such train with an emergency stop. This is before the pandemic.
One time someone fainted in the same carriage as me and they needed to get the paramedics. Fortunately he was okay.
Then another time some pissed off hobo decided the train was moving too slow, press the strip and cuss out the guards. This was on a Saturday afternoon at Bay Station. No he didn’t get charge.
Stuff do happen and sometimes people will all agree we should press the strip. One person might be too scared but they will encourage each other to do so.