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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

DSC said:
There has been discussion of this elsewhere on UT - they use temporary track for short-term diversions in both Amsterdam and London. Here is Dublin (2016)
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The TTC has used temporary track like this in the past. The problem is that doing so forces the road to be completely closed to all other traffic (which Traffic Services doesn't like), and they have had issues with the mix not setting properly due to the vibration.

That the TTC is in dire need of more streetcars for daily service doesn't help either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Can someone explain to me why the TTC isn't operating their monthly pass in the same fashion as GO Transit?

AFAIK, after X amount of taps on GO, you reach the monthly max. price and the rest of your trips are free for the remainder of the month. From reading an article about the TTC implementing the Metropass on Presto, it sounds like you still need to spend $140ish up front and pray you get your money's worth.
 
ticky said:
Can someone explain to me why the TTC isn't operating their monthly pass in the same fashion as GO Transit?

AFAIK, after X amount of taps on GO, you reach the monthly max. price and the rest of your trips are free for the remainder of the month. From reading an article about the TTC implementing the Metropass on Presto, it sounds like you still need to spend $140ish up front and pray you get your money's worth.
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1) Cash float--they get the money in advance at the start of the month for rides that will be taken as much as 30 days later; organizations like having money to work with up front.

2) It can only make them the same or more money--if someone gets laid off, takes a vacation, or just plain doesn't ride as much and ends up riding less than the ~$140's worth, the TTC still gets the full value of the pass. Or if someone doesn't buy a pass and ends up riding more than expected, that's really great for the TTC because they get more than the ~$140. With a capping system they only get $120 or $100 if somebody rides less. Having "passes" can only make you >= money, having capping can only make you <= money.
 
ticky said:
Can someone explain to me why the TTC isn't operating their monthly pass in the same fashion as GO Transit?

AFAIK, after X amount of taps on GO, you reach the monthly max. price and the rest of your trips are free for the remainder of the month. From reading an article about the TTC implementing the Metropass on Presto, it sounds like you still need to spend $140ish up front and pray you get your money's worth.
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The TTC decided they would rather have a daily and weekly cap then a monthly one because the Metropass is their big cash cow.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
.... because the Metropass is their big cash cow.
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The TTC regularly complains that the Metropass loses them money. There have been multiple occasions where they've mulled about cancelling it and forcing everyone to go back to tokens.

Try reading a report, rather than pulling stuff out of thin air.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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smallspy said:
The TTC regularly complains that the Metropass loses them money. There have been multiple occasions where they've mulled about cancelling it and forcing everyone to go back to tokens.

Try reading a report, rather than pulling stuff out of thin air.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
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Then why haven't they done that. Now would be a perfect opportunity but yet they are putting them on to Presto card so they may acttuly be better off with it.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Then why haven't they done that. Now would be a perfect opportunity but yet they are putting them on to Presto card so they may acttuly be better off with it.
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Because when 'loyalty cards' are on PRESTO they will be able to offer many different kinds. Montreal has a cheaper (unlimited) evening only pass, you can offer weekly passes starting any day, you can cap monthly use at any number of trips etc etc. I am sure they will always offer some sort(s) of pass(es) - whether they are exactly like fixed (calendar) month Metropasses in 3 years is the question.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Then why haven't they done that. Now would be a perfect opportunity but yet they are putting them on to Presto card so they may acttuly be better off with it.
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We will also have a lot better data on Metropass users once they are on Presto (beyond the current early adopters). Based on the decile or quartile how many rides do metropass riders use? Are they using it during rush hour or spreading their rides throughout the day (when transit is less busy)?

Is is true that seniors do not use it during rush hour (and hence the lower rate)? Should we eliminate age discrimination and create an off-peak pass available to everyone (vs just seniors)?

I would guess that 90% of the people who use the Metropass are not overusing it (defining overuse and the % that are overusing will of course be a debate once the raw data is available post-Presto adoption). But how do we restrict the use of the 10% who are creating a huge demand problem at the same time as helping the 90% who want to use the TTC as their primary source of transit?

For an example think of universities. York U creates great contra-flow traffic on a subway line (low subsidy requirement). We also have UT where students are part of the capacity problems during rush hour downtown. Presto can confirm if this is true. Excluding the social equality issues and just looking at economics should we give a discounted rate to YorkU vs UT students?
 
DSC said:
Because when 'loyalty cards' are on PRESTO they will be able to offer many different kinds. Montreal has a cheaper (unlimited) evening only pass, you can offer weekly passes starting any day, you can cap monthly use at any number of trips etc etc. I am sure they will always offer some sort(s) of pass(es) - whether they are exactly like fixed (calendar) month Metropasses in 3 years is the question.
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and that's what they have said minus having a fixed monthly cap. They have already said that they are implementing daily and weekly caps.
 
smallspy said:
The TTC regularly complains that the Metropass loses them money. There have been multiple occasions where they've mulled about cancelling it and forcing everyone to go back to tokens.
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The big issue with that s convence as not everyone wants to carry around tokens all the time or stop and buy them plus they may not be able to get them when they need them.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
Then why haven't they done that. Now would be a perfect opportunity but yet they are putting them on to Presto card so they may acttuly be better off with it.
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If by "that" you mean eliminate the Metropass - because they also recognize that a very large part of the draw of it is that there is a convenience factor as well. The average Metropass holder makes something like 75 trips per month - if the TTC cancelled the Metropass and forced everyone to use tokens, most of those customers would likely only use the TTC for the most convenient 40 or 45 of those trips. And they'd also lose a some customers altogether. Remember, over 70% of people on the TTC each day have access to a car.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
The average Metropass holder makes something like 75 trips per month - if the TTC cancelled the Metropass and forced everyone to use tokens, most of those customers would likely only use the TTC for the most convenient 40 or 45 of those trips. And they'd also lose a some customers altogether. Remember, over 70% of people on the TTC each day have access to a car.
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The convenience of the Metropass is not having to carry around tokens. Presto is already putting some pressure on the TTC, since a lot of people (especially commute-only users) are going to realize that there's no more convenience difference and it's cheaper to pay for 40 trips/month than a metropass.

Like someone else said, the capped option is being ruled out because it would likely cost tens of millions of dollars in revenue, which the TTC can't afford to lose. This is purely speculation, but I think that it'll actually lead to more ridership if anything. Heavy users aren't going to change their habits, and neither will light users, but some people might ride it a little more knowing that there is some maximum amount and they don't have to worry about paying more. But even with that, any tiny increase in revenue would be offset by all the people who, especially in the vacation months, don't take as much transit as they pay for. It's the same problem that the TTC has with time-based transfers.
 
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