TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Amare]

Russell Carhouse upgrades:

What we are doing and why:
The expansion of TTC’s streetcar fleet requires additional maintenance/storage space. In order to prepare for the arrival of new streetcars, TTC is upgrading storage capacity across the City including modifications to the carhouse and storage area at Russell Yard. Please view the Community Update (pdf) for more details about the upcoming construction.

The upgrade project will include:

Yard storage tracks (start date: as early as September 6, 2022 – for 2.5 years):
 Replace all yard track with concrete embedded track rail and switches (work takes place in stages as the yard will still be in service).
 Provide track lubrication to all storage tracks to reduce streetcar noise (wheel squeal).
 Replace all underground utility services and provide stormwater retention management system to meet City of Toronto and Toronto Water requirements.
 Replace overhead electrical conductor system for Streetcar pantograph operations.
 Trucking material off site/ truck traffic will be routed along Queen St. E. /Eastern Ave., and may cause temporary impacts to traffic lanes and on-street parking.
 Traffic control on Queen St. E. and Eastern Ave. (at Russell Carhouse) will be in place.
 Pedestrian and traffic detours will be in place.

Carhouse extension and modifications (start date: as early as 2025 – 2028, TBD*):
 Construct west extension of carhouse to allow for additional maintenance bay for LFLRVs.
 Upgrade existing carhouse building to accommodate new LFLRV streetcars.
 Reconfigure maintenance tracks and pits in the Carhouse for LFLRV operational maintenance.
 Introduce maintenance access for LFLRV rooftop mounted equipment.

Noise, vibration and work hours:
 Noise and vibration associated with construction can be expected with this work. Efforts will be made to keep levels to a minimum and mitigation will be undertaken.
 The majority of work will take place between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., as required. As permitted, some overnight and weekend work will be required during the course of this project.

TTC Service Impacts:
 No service impacts are expected as a part of the works. Additional streetcars will be dispatched from TTC’s two other streetcar maintenance/storage facilities: Leslie Barns and Roncesvalles Carhouse.

Looking forward to seeing how delayed this project will be when all is said and done with Russell Yard. I bet this wont be complete until 2030 knowing the TTC and how they cant complete anything on time.

 

[drum118]

Looking forward to seeing how delayed this project will be when all is said and done with Russell Yard. I bet this wont be complete until 2030 knowing the TTC and how they cant complete anything on time.

Show us the money and we will do it faster.

 

[Northern Light]

Show us the money and we will do it faster.

That's part of the equation, on some projects; though, really, when something is put out to tender, the price of the bid is not specified.

What should be specified is the completion date/project duration.

Ideally one would not micro-manage and specify how many people need to be on a job site at any given time; but that can be an obvious issue, as it is with some private sector projects too.

I spoke with a contractor on a TTC project which shall not be identified here..........and asked about the inordinate time involved. This is what I was told.

1) The TTC either doesn't set a time expectation, it sets a bloated expectation or it doesn't penalize a contractor for missing a deadline.........as such, Contractors give low-priority to TTC projects
and assign minimal crews, first staffing projects where an owner is clear, time is money. So, the TTC gets the staff not required by more important projects.

2) The TTC is often insufficiently prepared for a project, that is to say, any prepared drawings, or site condition reports are often wrong. This causes many delays, and triggers the need for change-orders on contracts.

** Side note on this, I saw TTC construction staff in a subway station recently and overheard a snippet of their chat.......this was in an open, customer-facing space, with no ceiling panels. The workers were clearly electricians and there
to do something in accordance w/their skills.........what did I hear? " We're supposed to run it from a junction box over here....(looking up at the ceiling).........but there's no box........." (they both mutter and double-check some drawings in a folder, then
" there's no #$@ box anywhere near here..........look (the one guy is pointing tracing back for his partner metre after meter and meter.....with no junction box); I could hear the audible sigh; along with the " We have to phone 'x' and see what he wants us to do" Remember, this is in-house work, by subject-matter experts, in a public-facing area, with no visual obstruction to what they need to work on, and they were sent with drawings that were wrong and instructions that could not be completed.

3) I was then told by the contractor that the process of getting a change order with the TTC was brutal. That they required the proposed change in writing, then an appointment had to be made with a TTC engineer to come to site, then even if a solution was agreed on, on-site, they had to wait for the change order in writing, signed off by someone in senior management, and that the delay from the moment of realizing a problem to being allowed to continue was measured in weeks.

Now, that experience may be the exception; and perhaps the contractors offered some self-serving bits.........but in light of the in-house example above......I'm inclined to take the majority as being fairly representative.

 

[Undead]

"There's no f****** box" shall be the TTC's new motto.

 

[DSCToronto]

Show us the money and we will do it faster.

Yes, more $$ can make things go faster but the point is that the TTC announces completion dates (presumably after it is aware of the budget for the project and the contractor is selected) and THEN fails to meet them. @NorthernLight's comments would seem to explain that!

 

[DSCToronto]

This just appeared on the Provinces Regulatory Registry of new or proposed Regs.

Cross-Boundary Service Integration: Amendments to the City of Toronto Act, 2006
The Ministry of Transportation is proposing to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006, which would enable more seamless transit services across the Toronto municipal boundaries by enabling agreements between the TTC and other municipal transit systems. This is an important step towards a fully integrated and optimized regional transit system, and the goal of transit cost and time savings for riders. Fragmented transit fare structures and transfers at municipal borders can make transit trips less convenient and more expensive. The Province is working with municipalities and transit agencies to improve rider experience and build back ridership as Ontario recovers from COVID-19.
Posting Date: August 10, 2022
Open for Comments: August 10, 2022 – September 12, 2022

 

[drum118]

Yes, more $$ can make things go faster but the point is that the TTC announces completion dates (presumably after it is aware of the budget for the project and the contractor is selected) and THEN fails to meet them. @NorthernLight's comments would seem to explain that!

That's part of the equation, on some projects; though, really, when something is put out to tender, the price of the bid is not specified.

What should be specified is the completion date/project duration.

Ideally one would not micro-manage and specify how many people need to be on a job site at any given time; but that can be an obvious issue, as it is with some private sector projects too.

I spoke with a contractor on a TTC project which shall not be identified here..........and asked about the inordinate time involved. This is what I was told.

1) The TTC either doesn't set a time expectation, it sets a bloated expectation or it doesn't penalize a contractor for missing a deadline.........as such, Contractors give low-priority to TTC projects
and assign minimal crews, first staffing projects where an owner is clear, time is money. So, the TTC gets the staff not required by more important projects.

2) The TTC is often insufficiently prepared for a project, that is to say, any prepared drawings, or site condition reports are often wrong. This causes many delays, and triggers the need for change-orders on contracts.

** Side note on this, I saw TTC construction staff in a subway station recently and overheard a snippet of their chat.......this was in an open, customer-facing space, with no ceiling panels. The workers were clearly electricians and there
to do something in accordance w/their skills.........what did I hear? " We're supposed to run it from a junction box over here....(looking up at the ceiling).........but there's no box........." (they both mutter and double-check some drawings in a folder, then
" there's no #$@ box anywhere near here..........look (the one guy is pointing tracing back for his partner metre after meter and meter.....with no junction box); I could hear the audible sigh; along with the " We have to phone 'x' and see what he wants us to do" Remember, this is in-house work, by subject-matter experts, in a public-facing area, with no visual obstruction to what they need to work on, and they were sent with drawings that were wrong and instructions that could not be completed.

3) I was then told by the contractor that the process of getting a change order with the TTC was brutal. That they required the proposed change in writing, then an appointment had to be made with a TTC engineer to come to site, then even if a solution was agreed on, on-site, they had to wait for the change order in writing, signed off by someone in senior management, and that the delay from the moment of realizing a problem to being allowed to continue was measured in weeks.

Now, that experience may be the exception; and perhaps the contractors offered some self-serving bits.........but in light of the in-house example above......I'm inclined to take the majority as being fairly representative.

When I first attended TTC meeting in early 2000's, only shook my head at what I was hearing and reading regarding contracts and dates as TTC was out to lunch on them based on my experience in construction.

Then there was the no penalty clause or lack of one with no teeth or real cost for miss dates or poor workmanship. Only have to look at the Flexity order to see that.

If a contractor fail to preform on time along with other issues, they were not allow to bid on any other contract for 1-3 years. Nice slap on the hand.

Others will say based on their experience in construction that to get a contract you must agree to a start date and completion date with high penalty clause if you fail to meet those dates under your control. If you have too many projects with issues, X buyer will not accept your bid(s) regardless if you have the lowest price in the future.

Change orders are a fact of life and are approved by the buyer subject to the reason for it and cost is justify in the first place. Reason for change orders can happen on many levels with all parties agreeing to it before the change can take place.. Some cases, change orders are done on the fly to keep thing moving with a cost showing up down the road that can cause issues as been too high, part of your contract or X problem.

TTC lack the people to run projects correctly as well lack the knowledge to do the work in the first place. TTC keeps inventing the wheel regardless there are better ways to do the work out there or doing the same thing over and over with various small changes. Lack of engineering drawings that are supposed to be updated as they are done have lead to many shut down, extra cost, delays as they have not been updated at all. This also applies to the city as well. St Clair West Station is a good example of this.

TTC is caught in a catch 22 case when the city hires the contractor and is responsible for overseeing it. I few blown gas lines, wrong placement of X has lead to many delays caused by X contractors that has put egg on TTC face a number of times over the years. KQQR is a good example
.
The person running TTC is the start point of not doing things right to where TTC is today regardless the lack of funds to do things. Its their job to hire the Sr management team who then hires the people to work under them. They are responsible to hold those people to the fire to make sure the work is done correctly, on time as well at budget cost.

End of the day, TTC needs a major overhaul from top to bottom like I have since the early 2000's with the exception of Andy who was thrown into the firepan and stolen away when he was about to do things on his term.

City of Toronto has thrown TTC under the bus far too long in funding it to allowing it to do its own thing that the Province has step in to do these days and will become more of an ML thing

 

[Northern Light]

Speaking of problems endemic to the TTC.............I was about to head out to grab a bottle of wine to go with dinner..........and checked Next Bus................. my every 10 minute route (every 7.5 minutes in rush hour) has 3 buses on it at the moment
which should be 4. But I digress............the wait times for the bus are 27M, 31M, 31M for an every 10 minute route with a 30M run time end to end.

Two of the vehicles are running as a pair, and for whatever reason the other one appears not to be moving at all.

So like the entitled such and such that I am, LOL..........I have again phoned customer service and talked them through phoning the applicable supervisor to adjust the service. I should not have to do this..........
Sigh.

 

[DSCToronto]

Speaking of problems endemic to the TTC.............I was about to head out to grab a bottle of wine to go with dinner..........and checked Next Bus................. my every 10 minute route (every 7.5 minutes in rush hour) has 3 buses on it at the moment
which should be 4. But I digress............the wait times for the bus are 27M, 31M, 31M for an every 10 minute route with a 30M run time end to end.

Two of the vehicles are running as a pair, and for whatever reason the other one appears not to be moving at all.

So like the entitled such and such that I am, LOL..........I have again phoned customer service and talked them through phoning the applicable supervisor to adjust the service. I should not have to do this..........
Sigh.

Did anyone at TTC actually DO anything to fix things or was it all talk and no action? Bon appetit!

 

[Northern Light]

Did anyone at TTC actually DO anything to fix things or was it all talk and no action? Bon appetit!

Yes, by the time I made the return trip, 1 hour later, my route had a full 3 buses on it, I gather there's someone unlucky who lives on Wellesley whose bus I poached.....and likely one other route. I hope they didn't raid Wellesley for two!

 

[Amare]

Reading about all this idiocy going on at the TTC with @Northern Light comments is just incredulous.

I honestly wonder what the hell management does with their days. They cant line manage (I kid you not when I say at least 1/2 of the routes in this city are screwed up operationally), they cant ensure construction projects are completed on time and properly (I just remembered the Roncesvalles project now which further illlustrates the point made about not spec'ing projects properly), they cant enforce fare evasion (I cant even remember the last time i've actively seen fare enforcement on the system). The list goes on and on with this horridly run organization.

On a side note, @Northern Light im assuming you know the direct contacts for TTC Customer Service? I've tried to phone them up before but I always have to waste 5 mins of my day listening to the incessant junk verbage at the beginning of the call, then get presented by options that seemingly never get me to an actual human to talk with.

 

[Coolibop]

That's part of the equation, on some projects; though, really, when something is put out to tender, the price of the bid is not specified.

What should be specified is the completion date/project duration.

Ideally one would not micro-manage and specify how many people need to be on a job site at any given time; but that can be an obvious issue, as it is with some private sector projects too.

I spoke with a contractor on a TTC project which shall not be identified here..........and asked about the inordinate time involved. This is what I was told.

1) The TTC either doesn't set a time expectation, it sets a bloated expectation or it doesn't penalize a contractor for missing a deadline.........as such, Contractors give low-priority to TTC projects
and assign minimal crews, first staffing projects where an owner is clear, time is money. So, the TTC gets the staff not required by more important projects.

2) The TTC is often insufficiently prepared for a project, that is to say, any prepared drawings, or site condition reports are often wrong. This causes many delays, and triggers the need for change-orders on contracts.

** Side note on this, I saw TTC construction staff in a subway station recently and overheard a snippet of their chat.......this was in an open, customer-facing space, with no ceiling panels. The workers were clearly electricians and there
to do something in accordance w/their skills.........what did I hear? " We're supposed to run it from a junction box over here....(looking up at the ceiling).........but there's no box........." (they both mutter and double-check some drawings in a folder, then
" there's no #$@ box anywhere near here..........look (the one guy is pointing tracing back for his partner metre after meter and meter.....with no junction box); I could hear the audible sigh; along with the " We have to phone 'x' and see what he wants us to do" Remember, this is in-house work, by subject-matter experts, in a public-facing area, with no visual obstruction to what they need to work on, and they were sent with drawings that were wrong and instructions that could not be completed.

3) I was then told by the contractor that the process of getting a change order with the TTC was brutal. That they required the proposed change in writing, then an appointment had to be made with a TTC engineer to come to site, then even if a solution was agreed on, on-site, they had to wait for the change order in writing, signed off by someone in senior management, and that the delay from the moment of realizing a problem to being allowed to continue was measured in weeks.

Now, that experience may be the exception; and perhaps the contractors offered some self-serving bits.........but in light of the in-house example above......I'm inclined to take the majority as being fairly representative.

Friends in the construction industry tell me this sort of thing is all too common, not limited to the TTC.

 

[Richard White]

That's part of the equation, on some projects; though, really, when something is put out to tender, the price of the bid is not specified.

What should be specified is the completion date/project duration.

Ideally one would not micro-manage and specify how many people need to be on a job site at any given time; but that can be an obvious issue, as it is with some private sector projects too.

I spoke with a contractor on a TTC project which shall not be identified here..........and asked about the inordinate time involved. This is what I was told.

1) The TTC either doesn't set a time expectation, it sets a bloated expectation or it doesn't penalize a contractor for missing a deadline.........as such, Contractors give low-priority to TTC projects
and assign minimal crews, first staffing projects where an owner is clear, time is money. So, the TTC gets the staff not required by more important projects.

2) The TTC is often insufficiently prepared for a project, that is to say, any prepared drawings, or site condition reports are often wrong. This causes many delays, and triggers the need for change-orders on contracts.

** Side note on this, I saw TTC construction staff in a subway station recently and overheard a snippet of their chat.......this was in an open, customer-facing space, with no ceiling panels. The workers were clearly electricians and there
to do something in accordance w/their skills.........what did I hear? " We're supposed to run it from a junction box over here....(looking up at the ceiling).........but there's no box........." (they both mutter and double-check some drawings in a folder, then
" there's no #$@ box anywhere near here..........look (the one guy is pointing tracing back for his partner metre after meter and meter.....with no junction box); I could hear the audible sigh; along with the " We have to phone 'x' and see what he wants us to do" Remember, this is in-house work, by subject-matter experts, in a public-facing area, with no visual obstruction to what they need to work on, and they were sent with drawings that were wrong and instructions that could not be completed.

3) I was then told by the contractor that the process of getting a change order with the TTC was brutal. That they required the proposed change in writing, then an appointment had to be made with a TTC engineer to come to site, then even if a solution was agreed on, on-site, they had to wait for the change order in writing, signed off by someone in senior management, and that the delay from the moment of realizing a problem to being allowed to continue was measured in weeks.

Now, that experience may be the exception; and perhaps the contractors offered some self-serving bits.........but in light of the in-house example above......I'm inclined to take the majority as being fairly representative.

At Warden Station the TTC have contracted out Bevcon to work on their entry driveway from St Clair Avenue East.

The work has been ongoing for 2 years now but all they are doing is resurfacing the road surface, rebuilding curbs, sidewalks and fences.

I haven't seen contractors there in over a month and only for a few minutes to shift pylons over and remove caution tape.

Prior to that, the site had pylons but was unattended for almost 6 months or more. In that time it seemed like they only came to shift a few pylons so it looked like they were working.

The TTC really needs to hold their contractors accountable. At this point I feel like Bevcon is simply milking the TTC while nobody is paying attention.

 

[Richard White]

So apparently the TTC is either too stupid to realise it happens or to prevent it but you can literally avoid paying a fare at Sherbourne.

The fare gate at street level for the new elevator is completely open on all sides. Anyone walking in from the street can enter the system without paying a fare. All they've have to do is move the stanchion and walk around.

While standing here typing this I watched at least a dozen people evade paying a fare.

 

[Amare]

So apparently the TTC is either too stupid to realise it happens or to prevent it but you can literally avoid paying a fare at Sherbourne.

The fare gate at street level for the new elevator is completely open on all sides. Anyone walking in from the street can enter the system without paying a fare. All they've have to do is move the stanchion and walk around.

While standing here typing this I watched at least a dozen people evade paying a fare.

View attachment 421645

I'm sure there willl be a permanent solution put in place....probably in 2025 or 2030 knowing how this poorly run organization manages things.

Not that in really matters for the TTC, since they really couldnt care less managing fare evasion these days. I'm actually curious to see how much the evasion rate has spiked in the past year.