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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

DSC said:
I certainly agree that the public-facing part of PRESTO is only part of the process and the financial tracking is at least as important. However, PRESTO now, one assumes, calculates the $$ correctly based on very complex transfer tables with many 'journeys' being composed of many taps - only some of which result in $$ changing hands. While I realise it is still complicated, I would think that discarding the current transfer rules (which involve both location and time) and replacing them with rules that are ONLY dependent on time would not be impossible to do 'fairly easily". You say "unless they've seriously messed up the design." Well, it's Metrolinx so I would not to too optimistic!
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If it was the first such case I'd agree, but since there's other PRESTO operators using time based transfers, it's not like the code doesn't already exist. It really depends on how hard it is to undo all the complicated TTC rules they have now
 
DSC said:
I certainly agree that the public-facing part of PRESTO is only part of the process and the financial tracking is at least as important. However, PRESTO now, one assumes, calculates the $$ correctly based on very complex transfer tables with many 'journeys' being composed of many taps - only some of which result in $$ changing hands. While I realise it is still complicated, I would think that discarding the current transfer rules (which involve both location and time) and replacing them with rules that are ONLY dependent on time would not be impossible to do 'fairly easily". You say "unless they've seriously messed up the design." Well, it's Metrolinx so I would not to too optimistic!
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The current presto implementation does not fully implement the current TTC transfer rule. It's simply too complicated to implement with location errors all the time. With presto, you can transfer at midblock, opposite directions, huge time differences between shortly traveled distances and etc. that otherwise would have the operator yelling at you if you show the paper transfer.

The current implementation is likely consist of simply a few fields stored on the presto card: time of fare charged, is there a tap at a subway station and a list of all bus routes taken. I think some branches act as separate route but further details are needed. It seems like location isn't stored on the card but stored on the reader which is later uploaded to the server.
The implementation is rather straight forward, before charging a fare
1. On subway readers
a) where transfers aren't allowed => charge fare and record time and subway taken, else
b) check time of fare payment, if too long => charge fare and record time and subway taken, else
c) check if subway i already taken, if so => charge fare and record time and subway taken, else
d) accept transfer, record subway taken
2. On all surface vehicles:
a) check time of fare payment, if too long => charge fare and record time and subway taken, else
b) check if the route has been taken, if so => charge fare and record time and subway taken, else
c) accept transfer, record the route number

Whenever they charge a fare, the time is record (same with as time based transfers) but they will clear the route taken list and if subway is taken checkbox
 
This article from Philadelphia has a lot of interesting parallels to the TTC and Presto: http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/01/23/septa-tokens-jewelry-arts-sale

On Monday, SEPTA stopped selling tokens at station machines and cashier booths.

SEPTA is the last major transit agency in the United States to still use tokens.

It’s a big step forward in moving riders onto the new fare card system, SEPTA Key, which has advanced in stops and starts. If SEPTA hits its new deadline of fully implementing Key by 2019, the authority will complete the project five years after the original due date.

But despite grousing for years over the long-delayed fare system upgrade, riders are now starting to feel nostalgic for the coins they used to curse.

It’s like being at a funeral for a jerk that died unexpectedly. One minute, nobody can stand the guy. The next, everyone’s sharing what they’ll miss about him.

SEPTA’s tokens were hard to find and easy to lose, and a source of constant, provincial embarrassment whenever a visitor asked: “Wait, you guys still use tokens?”

And yet, instead of dancing on their mass grave as SEPTA pulls the plug, Philadelphians are suddenly full of fond remembrances of the infernal silver- and copper- colored coins.
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Kyle Campbell said:
It'll come either voluntarily or via a court case I'm sure. I think it's all part of new accessibility standards.
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That would probably be the case if trains on same line went to several destinations but virtually all trains go to termini so if you hear a train and you are on right platform you get onto it. There are announcements if a train is going out of service.
 
Reecemartin said:
Its also generally good if you can't see to have some sense that a train is arriving, or that one is two minutes away, etc.
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You can hear the trains approaching, and sense the change in the air (the wind).

Which sighted subway riders already do quite well, given their ability to suddenly dart through the mezzanine of 3-story stations, because they know what the breeze means.

I suspect non-sighted riders are even better at this.
 
nfitz said:
You can hear the trains approaching, and sense the change in the air (the wind).

Which sighted subway riders already do quite well, given their ability to suddenly dart through the mezzanine of 3-story stations, because they know what the breeze means.

I suspect non-sighted riders are even better at this.
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And after doing a 60 second sprint, they realize the train is going in the other direction.
 
BurlOak said:
And after doing a 60 second sprint, they realize the train is going in the other direction.
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Not when the stairway is at one end of the platform. The noise and the airflow are different for each direction, so you know whether to dash or not. For those who have vision, there is also the reflection of the train on the floor, which you can see from the top of the stairs even if the train is out of sight.

- Paul
 
BurlOak said:
And after doing a 60 second sprint, they realize the train is going in the other direction.
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Not if you can see which was the last train from the people walking in. And then sometimes the wind is extra strong, so you know there's coming from both directions. And sometimes it's just a whisper, so you walk a bit fast.

But I'm sighted. I'd suspect someone with heightened senses would do better.

crs1026 said:
Not when the stairway is at one end of the platform. The noise and the airflow are different for each direction, so you know whether to dash or not. For those who have vision, there is also the reflection of the train on the floor, which you can see from the top of the stairs even if the train is out of sight.
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Or perhaps even someone who is better sighted than me.
 
I've been thinking about this for quite some time... each terminal station has two tail tracks. Would there be much benefit from changing the current practice at terminals to unloading on the outbound platform, pulling into a tail track, and then pulling into the inbound platform to load the train.

This is a practice I've seen in many other cities (eg. outside of Europe, in Montreal).

The main benefit I can see is offloading passengers faster, by having up to four trains (2 platform + 2 tail tracks) at a terminal station at any given time instead of the current two.

I'm curious whether this would improve the bunching situation on the approach to terminals at peak times.
 
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